I was REALLY looking forward to Never said I was deep, but I made a big mistake in listening to the shepherds bush empire bootleg for the past few months. It is nowhere near as good as I hoped- it's been slowed down and I can't get into it.
The rest of the tracks are going to take a few listens, Pilchard is quite good though.
(Just gotta wait for Girls like to too to surface now!)

-- Edited by zaqx on Wednesday 22nd of April 2009 12:15:47 PM

I'm just listening to Never Said I Was Deep via Hype Machine. First impression is that it's fantastic. Be interested to see how it sets in after a few spins round...

Hold Still is great. 

this album is much better than Jarvis.

It is indeed better than his first album. Some parts remind me of This Is Hardcore, Relaxed Muscle and even The Wyrd Sisters. This is a fine album.

Wow. I got it a few days ago through my waning rock-crit connections and so far I think it's highly inferior to the first solo album. I like "Slush," "Caucasian Blues" and a few others though. But I think the production's wrong, and the band is really pedestrian compared to Doyle, Senior, Banks and Webber. I'm really starting to miss them.

However, as I remember it, I was underwhelmed by Jarvis at first. I reserve the right to change my mind after more listens.

Oh...the whole album has leaked? I thought it was just the 3 songs...
I kinda wanted to wait til I bought the album before listening to everything like last time. Even though 'Jarvis' leaked a good 6 weeks or so before its release I only listened to a few of the songs. Having said that we already know most of the album live so it's not cheating that much.

I hope that most of us do pay for it when it is properly released.

Ok everyone, I've just finished my first full listen of the album. First impressions are that this is an improvement in the first album. In fact I think it's bloody good!

As one review said this album is very much Jarvis 'trying on different hats' and if you ask me they all fit quite well.

I wouldn't like to name a favourite song as there's too many to choose from.

Worst Song? For me it has to be Hold Still, it seemed a bit boring compared to the rest although this is only after 1 listen.

The record is quite good after a few listens, but i still cant understand what's good about Pilchard, and the praise it's geting here.

It would make a good intro for live shows, but as a track on a record, really, what's the point. A filler on track 3 ! unbelievable. Jarvis makes weird choices sometimes, but i guess we're used to it.

andy wrote:

---

The record is quite good after a few listens, but i still cant understand what's good about Pilchard, and the praise it's geting here.

It would make a good intro for live shows, but as a track on a record, really, what's the point. A filler on track 3 ! unbelievable. Jarvis makes weird choices sometimes, but i guess we're used to it.

---

I really like the music and pace of Pilchard.

 

Perfect wrote:

---

"fucking song" should have kept more of that little noise..

---

EVERY Pulp/RM/Jarvis song should have more of 'that little noise'! ;)

Jarvis: You're In My Eyes (DiscoSong)..."is about a beam from a mirror ball hitting a floater in a man's eye, which brings back his dead girlfriend. She appears next to him on the dancefloor, as it turns out that eye floaters are memories. So he's dancing with her, but he realises if he stops dancing she'll disappear - he'll have to dance for the rest of his life!"

Just given the whole album a first listen.

Not quite sure, what to make of it to be honest. We already knew it contains some of the best songs he's ever written (LeftOvers, DiscoSong, Never Said). As for the rest - well you certainly can't accuse him of playing it safe like maybe he did a bit on his first record.
His vocals on the louder songs are quite impressive, especially the shouty bits. But they also make him sound a lot older than on previous records. I wonder how much Albini influenced the heavier sound. It's gonna take a bit of getting used to, Jarvis setting loose amidst a hail of loud guitars, and saxophones...

Getting away with the lyrics of 'FuckingSong' at his age, well if it was anyone else you'd cringe but he's done it for the last 25 years so I suppose it works.
Conversely, I can't believe he's taken out the ''I could be your teddy-bear, a teddy-bear with an erection'' bit on LeftOvers. Even the original start of that part, "Broken-down, middle-aged divorcee.." was great (Does anyone who saw this song performed in November know which version he sung?). Thankfully the rest of that song more than lives up to it's live reputation.

Further Complications and Caucasian Blues sound great, after being promising on their live outings. Angela makes a lot more sense in the context of the album. Maybe Girls Like It Too would have stood out?

Of the completely new ones - Homewrecker and Hold Still need more listens but there's a driving urgency to both that keeps the album buzzing along after the two ballads before it. I'm sure I'll hear a tune in them with a few more plays...
Pilchards...I like the Supergrass 'Coffee In The Pot' comparison. That is a lot catchier though. Like Andy, I'm not convinced yet by this track.


You've got to admire him though. He's still got a hunger for making interesting music (or rather, he's regained his hunger after it deserting him for the past decade) and on first listen it's exciting, a bit puzzling at times, but no doubt will bear much repeated playing.

Eamonn wrote:

---

Conversely, I can't believe he's taken out the ''I could be your teddy-bear, a teddy-bear with an erection'' bit on LeftOvers. Even the original start of that part, "Broken-down, middle-aged divorcee.." was great.

i believe he sings "i know it's just a song" in "fucking song" except in the end. when is he going to stop this...?

Disney Time is brilliant!

I'm having a love/hate relationship with Disney Time :D Anyway, his debut is a lot better than most people think. Quality songs, good production, great bsides...

This new album is weird. Half a rock n roll album, half a mellow album, and a disco song. Dont sound very cohesive to me, maybe i'll get used to it. Also, i'm having trouble liking it when i dont listen to it on headphones. The production is flat when i put it on my stereo (and no my stereo isnt broken !)

I miss Chris Thomas.

I enjoyed Never Said I Was Deep a lot, but I can relate to other comments about the live versions - I like his style of singing more on the live versions, there seems to be more passion and feeling there, almost pleading his case.

(Disney Time is the best song released since 2002 by the way!)

Does anyone think the tracklisting is a bit weird ? Ive twisted it and it flows better i think

Further Complications
Angela
Leftovers
Homewrecker
Hold Still
Fuckingsong
Pilchard
Caucasian Blues
I Never Said I Was Deep
You're In My Eyes (Discosong)

This sounds much better, i didnt really like "Leftovers" and "I Never Said I Was Deep" being back to back, as they are the same kinda song.

A few days and a dozen listens later... It all still sounds very good too me.

I always read reviews comparing Pulp's sound to David Bowie, but personally, I never made that connection before. I even took offense to the comparison. This solo album, however, does sound like an old Bowie record.

One of the things that strikes me as a nice change of pace is that Jarvis' vocals feel more organic than they have in a long time. He doesn't sound overly processed or modulated (except on Angela, but that seems to be the point of that song). More importantly, it sounds like he's in the same room as the rest of the band.

I've been saying for a long time that ever since This is Hardcore, it's sounded like the music and the lyrics were recording in isolation, and then the group tried to mash them together, sometimes painfully. Think for instance of these lines from "I Love Life":

You've got a problem / I lost my keys / when I stayed in your place / on the floor of your living room / well you made a scene / but it'll never get shown on TV"

Now, perhaps that lyrical refrain means a lot to Jarvis, but to me, it should have never made it into the final song. It's not so much that the lyric is obtuse (it is) but that it doesn't fit the overall flow of the song. It's as if the whole song had to come to a screeching halt so Jarvis could squeeze the line in, and I think it ruins the song. There are similar parts in Bad Cover Version, Glory Days, Sylvia... just to name a few.

This new record impresses me, in part, because of its efficiency. Lyrically, these may not be Jarv's wittiest songs. The only song on the album that strikes me as having great lyrics is "I Never Thought I was Deep". What makes these songs good are their energy and the fact that the vocals and the music work so well together. I have no idea what "Homewrecker!" is about, but I still think it's a kick-ass song. The power of Jarvis' delivery is, in this case, more important than the words he's delivering.

In his lecturers on lyrics, Jarvis pointed out that "Heroes" has fairly pedestrian lyrics, but that the passion with which Bowie sings his lyrics gives the song its power. I think the same may be true for this new solo album.

I don't think I will hold these songs too close to my heart, just because I do tend to gravitate toward lyrics first. Still, I can't say there's anything on this record that sounds -bad- (for a change) and I enjoy all the songs without qualification. They might eventually fade from my memory, and I may not listen to the whole record as often as I do some of Jarvis' other work. I certainly won't stew over this record for hours, since there's not that much here to decode. It's a very immediate record, and in some ways that disappointing, but since music has lost a lot of its intellectual value for me over the last few years, I think an "immediate" record is probably better than a "complicated" one. Ironic, given the title.

-- Edited by Fuss Free on Sunday 26th of April 2009 03:06:25 PM

Maybe he doesn't like the fact that he's regarded as "intellectual" and "deep" anymore?
I don't know but.. why waste a wonderful talent that you have...? There's no point in writing a song like "Angela"(like that song haven't been criticized before.. it's almost too easy now, don't you think?) if you can do so much better..

It has a very Stones/Bob Dylan sound & feel to me. Which is nice.
Encouragingly, 'Angela' only having a limited release could indicate that for the single propper he's going back to the 60s/70s style of non album singles in the same time window as the album, to match the style! (:
Maybe with an album track as a b-side like Floyd's See Emily Play/Scarecrow.
So in a couple of months we could see Girls Like It Too/Pilchard tearing up the charts for festival season.

Dare I say it now... Angela is beginning to grow on me. It is a throw away 3 min pop song I suppose. I still can't listen to it outside the context of the album though.

All I know is from the minute I wake up to the second I fall asleep the bloody thing is stuck on a loop in my head!

I'm wondering in the absence of Girls Like it too, what else on the album could have been a lead single. There's not much to choose from and I would guess Angela is the most accessable.

I listened to the live versions of these songs very little as I know it's often the case that you tend to like the first versions you heard the best, so I kept myself for the studio recordings.
I had kind of ruined We Love Life a bit by doing that and by the time the album came out I wasn't excited about the songs anymore - (and annoyed about the fact Minnie Timperley and I love Life were ruined!). So I haven't done it again since!

For those would like to see a re-hashed track listing - here's mine:

1 Further Complications;
2 Angela;
3 Pilchard;
4 Girls Like It Too;
5 Leftovers;
6 I Never Said I Was Deep;
7 Homewrecker;
8 Hold Still;
9 Fuckingsong;
10Caucasian Blues;
11Slush;
12Youre In My Eyes


Perfect!

Eamonn wrote:

---

It will be interesting to hear the remaining four songs that were recorded but didn't make the album. We all know of 'Girls Like It Too's merits but I wonder if we'll be questioning ''Why the hell didn't this make the record?'' (á la every record Jarvis has made) to the others when they're released.

---

Iv been thinking just that about "Apparently", when i heard it live i remember thinking that it sounded great...i might be wrong though.

After listening to the album about four dozen times I must admit I'm very disappointed.

For me the point of every Pulp/Jarvis-song is its tension between music and lyrics. On the one hand you've got stirring artistic pop music, on the other you've got Jarvis' stories about life and affliction with sex and suburbia. Songs like Lipgloss or I Will Kill Again are so much more than the sum of its parts because of the tension between form and content. (Not to mention positive creative tensions within a band like Pulp).

My problem with Further Complications is, that we have six "furious" songs with "furious" lyrics and "furious" topics. All these rock songs are quit flat and pointless. Caucasion Blues for example is not bad at all. I like it as a throwaway song. But why does Jarvis waste his genius on throwaways??

Leftovers, Hold Still and I Never Said I Was Deep are much wittier, but again: either they don't have complete stories to tell or I'm completely missing the points. (Btw I can't understand why Jarvis has dropped the "teddy bear with an erection" either.) The lyrics sound incomplete and therefore the songs are just running on the spot.

The only two songs working for me are Slush and In My Eyes. The latter seems to be the friendly brother of It's a Dirty World. Love it!

So, perhaps Further Complications is an album of transition or disorientation or whatever. I'm sure the live shows will be amazing but I'm deeply, deeply hoping that Jarvis will retrieve this special "tension" - on his own, with his new band or at best with Pulp.

-- Edited by MerkinMuffley on Thursday 30th of April 2009 01:57:40 PM

Eamonn wrote:

---

Of the ''more serious'' songs, ''Hold Still'' is intriguing me most probably cos it's the only real song with anything approaching oblique lyrics. Given the news of Jarvis' marriage break-up I'm starting to hear new (probably wrong) things in lines such as ''Like a single parent at the fair'' and ''You're cosmic dust but you're everything to me''.

---

Hold Still is emerging as my favourite song on the record. Still not sure what it's about, but it sounds really good to these ears.

I've started skipping over Fuckingsong. It sounds too much like every shitty American "rock" band from the past 10 years. Like a terrible Creed or Chris Daughtry song with naughtier lyrics. Next please.

i'm not really sure how I Never Said I Was Deep is supposed to be the best thing that Cocker has ever written and somehow Further Complications/Angela/Homewrecker/Pilchard are 'lazy'.  oh wait, separation musically and lyrically of chorus and verse.  (who cares about that?) 

and everyone thinks Death of a Ladies' Man is one of Cohen's best records.  it just didn't sell well, so Cohen publically blamed Spector. 

weener wrote:

---

i've listened to the album lots - liked most of it, except angela.

then last night i listed to it all when pissed - and it all really works!!!! honest. you should try it. even angela was good.

---

Do you think it works with "silence" too?

maybe discosong?

James wrote:

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Have ordered the album on vinyl, looking forward to actually having it in a physical format.
Still really enjoying the whole record.
weed, I'd try the title track & I Never Said I Was Deep. Or any of the others ;)

---

 Ha! That's narrowed it down then! I'm gonna try out discosong to open with. However, I'll probably chnage my mind another half dozen times!

Hmm, bit early for a paper to be reviewing it, but Further Complications is The Irish Times 'Album of the Week':



BRIAN BOYDJARVIS COCKER
Further Complications Rough Trade ****


On paper, a collaboration between the noise guitar rock producer Steve Albini and the delicate and informed wordsmith Jarvis Cocker seems unlikely. But on this, Cockers second solo album, the result is a giddy mix of controlled chaos and trenchantly acerbic commentary on all manner of contemporary issues.

That first solo album saw Cocker toss off the restricting mantle of Britpop icon and claw back some eccentricity and experimentation. Hes on similar terrain here, but with a bit more of a sonic va-va-voom.

The title track has a fuzzy, rollicking riff over which the singer screams Your life is just a carrier bag among other bon mots. This particular sound ironic indie pop meeting sinewy grunge trash provides the musical backdrop for most of what is on show here. A more garage rock style sound emerges on Angela , and the rhythm of the music means a change in the lyrics some of Cockers meanderings of old are replaced here with smarter and shorter aphorisms.

The album highlight is I Never Said I Was Deep , with its weird jazz-light backing. I never said I was deep, my lack of knowledge is vast, my horizons are narrow, if youre waiting to find whats going on in my mind, youll be waiting forever he croons. The musical set-up of the song suggests that Albini was only too willing to bend his usual studio trickery and play to Cockers strengths.

The big rock guitar backing (sometimes with an added horn section) continues on the instrumental Pilchard and the beefy Housewrecker . Cockers voice is brought a bit more to the fore on the skewed piano ballad that is Hold Still and the mildy disturbing disco-lite of Youre In My Eyes .

Theres a rawness and urgency about these songs. Cocker seems to be in unsettled mood as he takes swipes at all around him. But the atypical musical approach finds him focused in his anger and sarcasm. Theres nothing left of Pulp anymore he seems, if anything, to be heading into more Elvis Costello territory: switching around musical genres as he sees fit.

On this evidence, Jarvis Cocker has uncovered a rich, new seam and hes not afraid to turn it up to 11 when the situation demands. www.my space.com/jarvspace

Download tracks: I Never Said I Was Deep , Youre in My Eyes

allmusic.com gives Further Complications 4.5 out of 5 stars and has it as an album pick.



-- Edited by Frisko2000 on Monday 18th of May 2009 07:25:20 PM

Cor...I'm thousands of miles from the record-player at home but I'm very tempted to get the vinyl now... so Discosong gets its' own record, just like Running The World last time (though that was a 7'' I think?).

I have all 11 tracks on mine which was delivered by HMV today.

As said before, nice glossy booklet with lyrics and pictures of Jarvis in awkward positions. The edge of the case says 'the second Jarvis Cocker record' :).

I hope everyones going to buy it who got it as a free download :)!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a good NME review as I feel that is always the most important review for shaping people's perceptions. Manchester Metro gave it 3/5 and a pretty positive mention. I've seen quite a variety of different reviews; negative and positive which I think is about fair.

I think it's a grower. I didn't hear it until yesterday either. The first time I put it on, nothing really jumped out and grabbed me, but I've been pretty much listening to it all day, on and off, and am now liking what I hear a lot. Without wishing to give too much away on a personal level, or sound a bit pretentious, a lot of what Jarvis is singing about on this album I can relate to well right now, so maybe that helps my appreciation of it. Particularly like Leftovers right now.
Does anyone else think of the Batman theme tune, when Homewrecker comes on?

I've ordered a vinyl copy at my local record store yesterday, since I own everything Jarvis has released solo (and Relaxed Muscle) on vinyl. Got to wait a day or 10, but than I got the original copy. I'm not listening to the download that often, but I liked all the songs except Discosong. Luckily that one will be on a different 12''.

anet wrote:

---

I think it's a grower. I didn't hear it until yesterday either. The first time I put it on, nothing really jumped out and grabbed me, but I've been pretty much listening to it all day, on and off, and am now liking what I hear a lot. Without wishing to give too much away on a personal level, or sound a bit pretentious, a lot of what Jarvis is singing about on this album I can relate to well right now, so maybe that helps my appreciation of it. Particularly like Leftovers right now.
Does anyone else think of the Batman theme tune, when Homewrecker comes on?

---

yeah, it is the Batman theme.

I have only heard it once via the Guardian stream, and i err err don't like it.   My expectations weren't high and I'm used to being disappointed when singers go solo.  The first album had three good songs (From A to I, Fat Kids and Cunts), but I don't think this has any.   I had only heard Angela (amazingly it's going to be out as a single 15th June according to hmv.com) and didn't like that much before the album came out.  

Maybe it will grow on me. 

Deebs wrote:

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Did anyone hear him mention on the radio the other night how he now goes to a gym in Paris once a week? Jarvis in the gym, someone has got to get that on camera!

---

if you mean "loose ends" ..no. But that sounds ..hmm interesting..Jarvis with muscles Very interesting. wonder what he's favorite machine is

 

Oh yeah..heard it today. Steve doesn't asks him further about that.. :/ nice version of "further complications" though... the lyric becomes more to it's rights without all the album noise.

A cross-over between Madness and Jarvis fans?? I don't get that one. I won't be buying any of those other albums, but, if I had to get one, it would most likely be Green Day.

This got me thinking - is there a typical Jarvis fan? Do Jarvis fans tend to like similar types of other music - or are we a diverse bunch?

-- Edited by anet on Saturday 23rd of May 2009 10:40:42 PM

I imagine that it's not that impossible that a green day fan would like Jarvis rock-sound. Even if i nor so keen on them..nor eminem.
But if Jarvis new album sell better than the first one..will he continue with his new rock sound..?

It's gone in at number 19. Pretty good going. Those stints working in record-shops on Monday obviously paid-off! Check out this video of him serving at HMV - very funny!

http://www.getcloser.com/artist/audioandvideo/Jarvis+Cocker/255505/13630/

Edit: Fuss Free, why do you delete your posts so often?!

-- Edited by Eamonn on Sunday 24th of May 2009 06:31:56 PM

Regarding Madness, my favourite song of theirs is probably ''One Better Day'' (crap title, I know) which came out in the mid-80s when their chart-topping heyday was behind them. It's a much maturer sound than the ''nutty'' stuff they were noted for. And I think the new album is a loosely-based conceptual record about the places in London that inspired them. Has got really good reviews, the album went in at number 5 today I think. Good to see that you can successfully mine a more intelligent source for 'pop music' as you get older.

Joy Division, brilliant of course. Have you seen the film, Control? Bizarrely there's posters for it all over here in Madrid as it's only just been released in the cinema, two years after it came out in the UK!

good choice with James: they're amazing and so good live!

anet wrote:

---

Another James fan - woo hoo! Best band ever live - they were the band that plugged the huge hole left in my life when Pulp stoped playing. No easy task, by any means.

---

and then they split up....(until the other year anyway)

Eamonn wrote:

---

It's gone in at number 19. Pretty good going. Those stints working in record-shops on Monday obviously paid-off! Check out this video of him serving at HMV - very funny!

http://www.getcloser.com/artist/audioandvideo/Jarvis+Cocker/255505/13630/

Edit: Fuss Free, why do you delete your posts so often?!

-- Edited by Eamonn on Sunday 24th of May 2009 06:31:56 PM

---

Oh my Xenu, I want one of those tote bags! :(

 

Deebs wrote:

---

Finally (and I know I'll get slaughtered for this) but I dont mind the first two albums from Oasis. MOR? Bad attitude? Yes indeed, but along with a few other bands of that time this music provided the soundtrack to many good nights out etc. in my life, and so always brings back the memories when I hear those tunes.

-- Edited by Deebs on Wednesday 27th of May 2009 11:19:20 AM

---

Haha, I like some songs by Suede so I don't think you should be ashemed (or slaughtered)
Don't know if you feel the same but I feel like i'm cheating(and a bit guilty fore som reason...) on Pulp if i play a suede song.. so it dosent happend that often.

 

i may make a fool of my self now (if i do i blame my fever) but have Jarvis/Pulp ever done two albums that sounds similar or exactly the same? I mean WIL and TIH - very diffrent, TIH- DC- not the same sound.. DC- HNH etc. And of course Jarvis vs. Further Complications.
So if he makes a third album it would be very surprising if he continued with the rock sound.
( unless the quite good chart position at nr 19 gives him bad some idea....)

In terms of music I really just listen to the classic British pop stuff, and some US indie, pretty dull. Bands/Arists I'm obsessed with: Belle and Sebastian, The Smiths, Pulp, Elvis Costello, Orange Juice, Sufjan Stevens.
Other bands I like very much: Ballboy, Felt, Billy Bragg, The Auteurs, Blur, various Motown/Phil Spector/Northern Soul groups, Suede, some C86, some Shoegaze...

What's with the anti-Suede feeling? I can't see why a Pulp fan wouldn't like the first Suede record.

In answer to point 4 - can you really be having a mid-life crisis at 33 though?

I still like the album, but do find it lacks the energy and drive of earlier Pulp albums. And I don't think it is nearly as 'rock' sounding as it is getting cast as.

Just one point that annoys me about Jarvis's writing on F.C. - he should quit whinging about being old and past it - he's only in his mid 40's, and has aged very well too. He's carrying on as if he's on the verge of drawing his pension!

Having said that, the worst offender of Jarvis's 'I'm really old now' attitude - Leftovers - is my favourite song on the album.

-- Edited by anet on Sunday 31st of May 2009 10:05:45 PM