Fuss Free wrote:

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It's funny, I actually think Different Class is the album that falls apart on Side B. I rarely feel the urge to listen to Live Bed Show, Something Changed, Sorted, Underwear or Bar Italia. I do quite like Feeling and Monday Morning, but they aren't anyway near the top of my Pulp tracks.

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That's interesting... Refraining from the urge to call you a crazy person of dubious tastes, I will say that I find that very interesting. I often can't be bothered listening to the DC singles* - particularly Common People or Disco 2000 - because they're so over-familiar, but once they're actually *playing* they're irresistible. I never have that problem with any of the DC album-only tracks, though, particularly the tail end of the album.

* Something Changed is interesting, in that I remember I *was* starting to get a little tired of it until the single came out. (There's going to be more about this on the revised site, when it finally appears). For some reason, the single and its attendant inlay card, with all its lazily reclining naked people, gave the song a whole different atmosphere in my head which persists to this day.

Ian wrote:

The Professional would have made a great album track. Can't say I agree with the others though. I'm guessing that the rare songs from the This is Hardcore reissue will be brilliant but we'll have to wait and see.

Frisko2000 wrote:

'We Are the Boyz' was more a sub for 'TV Movie' or 'A Little Soul'. i think that those are the real low points of the album. 'The Day After the Revolution' is probably meant to be a more important song (at least when it was written) but i don't think it's better than 'Like A Friend'. the US version that i've always listened to has always closed with 'Like A Friend'. but i'd almost always hear either song over the fourteen minute 'The Day After the Revolution'...

cactus jack wrote:

the thing about this album is that i always have it on me, i think it's still great, tv movie i'd have to agree could have been got rid of but the rest is fantastic, i really like sylvia, i identify with it,

Jayenkai wrote:

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It's We Love Life that's crap all the way..

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Heretic! BURN HIM!

The Idiot wrote:


I think His'n'Hers is pretty much the perfect Pulp album, though I'm glad they made the bigger sounding and more successful Different Class rather than try to maintain underground "indie" status. Unfortunately I don't think Mr. Senior agreed with me, and I'm inclined to believe that his departure makes This Is Hardcore (and We Love Life, obviously) a considerably weaker album.

TIH does start well, it's already been mentioned that The Fear is a great opener: I remember some reviewer describing it as the character from Sorted a couple of years down the line, and that's indicative of the album in general; a little more dark, having to deal with the demons and so on.

At various times the mawkishness of Dishes has bothered me: And I'm not worried that I will never touch the stars 'cause stars belong up in heaven and the earth is where we are. Though overall it's a great song.

I don't think Party Hard has a bad vocal, it's just mixed so that the lower octave voice is prominent, and that's harder to enjoy than when Jarv is in a higher register. (Same with The Trees.) I'd definitely like to see Party Hard's vocals remixed, but also Mark Webber's guitar part is a little too ordinary and "rawk" than something Senior would have come up with. Undoubtedly Webber is a better guitarist than Senior, but the latter's style and flair is much stronger, even when playing guitar - he seems to be playing violin lines on guitar, which is so simple as to be sneered at by any "accomplished" musician but it's just that quality that makes it unique and interesting, especially with Pulp's trashy glam feel.

Help The Aged is very good, but too similar in Feel to DC. I expect this is why it was made the comeback single, but it doesn't feel like a development. Still the subject matter is perfect for a TIH album track.

This Is Hardcore the song is utterly fantastic, though an odd choice of single. Maybe it should've been the third single rather than second, a lot of people were probably put off buying the album by this. But the song and accompanying video are among Pulp's greatest triumphs and possibly pop music's too.

TV Movie is weak, almost Pulp-by-numbers. What's become apparent is that - for whatever reason - the songs don't seem to have been honed or developed enough.

I quite like A Little Soul - even the Smokey Robinson reference of the riff and title - but it was another bad choice of single and more evidence (for me) that ideas were running quite low at this point.

I'm A Man is another song that I feel is weakened by the American sounding verse that Russel Senior would have made more interesting, though it's also an example of how Jarvis is one of the best chorus writers in music. A possible single if made "properly".

Seductive Barry is great; it possibly suffers from being among weaker songs, but if the other tracks on this side were really focused and sharp I believe this would have been a lovely indulgence.

Another song with a great chorus and unfulfilled potential. Somehow these songs just sound like the band and Jarvis couldn't get around to finishing the writing properly. Like The Meaning Of Life by Monty Python.

Glory Days sounds like it wants to be anthemic, but there just isn't enough melodically or lyrically to justify that. I'm not familiar with Cocaine Socialism (yet) but it at least sounds interesting and opinionated.

The Day After The Revolution is like Seductive Barry for me: it's dragged down by a few mediocre songs around it. Could've been a good closer, but it's never a Bar Italia and nowhere near a David's Last Summer.

I wonder will the "new" songs on the reissues prove that a much better album could've been made, but it's still better than anything Oasis ever did.

Scotty wrote:

Agreed - I mean reading through this thread, people dont like Day Of The Revolution........what the **** is that all about !!!???!?!?!?!?!

Mind you, I kind of dislike Common People lol - as it simply the only track aside from Disco 2000 or at a push Sorted that Joe Bloggs knows on the street! AND its the only song thats played on the radio.....but thats not a bad thing as its getting airplay STILL since 1995

Couldn't agree more. With the stuff about This Is Hardcore, I mean.

Welcome to the board, theonewhothrowsthelastbookonthefire. What should we call you for short? TOWTTLBOTF?

The Idiot wrote:

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It's a three am look-at-your-life album, or a hangover album: world-weary and a bit disillusioned (or even cynical at points). There's certainly less naivety than in any previous Pulp record, more experience and age without the nostalgia of Disco 2000. So, while it's not a bleak or negative album it's still rather dark in a way.

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I agree. The Fear is obviously pretty dark, while Dishes and A Little Soul are sad (in a good way). The title track is just incredibly world-weary and cynical in a really powerful way; The way Jarvis makes the fame-as-porn metaphor work for the whole song never fails to knock me out.

I haven't gotten the reissues yet, but I hear in the liner notes to this, Jarvis kinda regrets not making the album entirely dark, but I think that's what makes the album so strong. Glory Days and The Day After the Revolution are cautiously hopeful, and there's something realistic about those songs that I really respond to.

8 years later, i still dont get why people dont like a little soul, it's a classic for me : its got soul, emotion, melody, production...everything is basicaly spot on on this track.

i think thi is very well balanced with epics (the fear, sylvia, tih), ballades (a lillte soul, dishes), grrreat fillers (party hard, tv movie)...etc

i would only switch party hard for we are the boyz, but that's only for own liking.

one of the best album ever.

Not that i dislike TIH. It's actually my favourite album for this particular 5 minutes of my Pulp-related life.

"A Little Soul" was always going to be a divisive track. It owns more to Johnny Cash than to Ray Davies, and therefore it's the most willlfully anti-britpop song on the record. It's not particularly to my taste either, but I like that they had the balls to do it.

I should have mentioned earlier, and sorry if it has been mentioned elsewhere, but TIH got a large "Classic Album" review in NME last week.

For once, NME deserve some credit for having often held up TIH as a superior album to Different Class, or at least one that deserves more attention.

Having said this, it didn't make their Top 100 albums feature recently, whereas Different Class and His 'n' Hers did.

i think TIH could have been one of those fabulous, bloated, indulgent, genius double albums in the same vein as the White Album, Exile, or Sign o' the Times. imagine all the proper Hardcore songs, with all the b-sides, with properly recorded demos, all mixed together is one massive sleazy stew of an album. it could have been their definative artistic statement. (if it isn't already...)

Really sorry to bump this ancient topic, but I just can't help myself (even though it's now 2011 so the title makes little sense!)

This Is Hardcore is far and away my favourite Pulp album. I like Different Class a lot and can understand why it's held as their seminal piece, but TIH sounds like a more mature, well rounded band. For those who say it isn't dark, I feel the album starts to get a bit lighter towards the end. It's almost like a concept album, from the point of view of someone having a drunk night alone examining and analysing themselves and where it went wrong, leading to the final ten minutes of TDATR as the sun starts to rise and the person sobers up.

The Fear is a brilliant opening track and sets the mood for the album completely. Whilst the tone of the keyboards and guitars are quite similar to that of Different Class the tempo is a lot slower and subdued and you know that this is going to be a very different record. Dishes is a beautiful, poignant track that anyone who has woken up and realised that everything has fucked up and accepted it can listen to. Someone in this topic said they find the line "and I'm not worried that I will never touch the stars/'cause stars belong up in heaven and the earth is where we are", I digress, it suits the song so well. It almost has the feel of someone on anti-depressants speaking...

Party Hard almost sounds like an ode to Happy Mondays, with hypnotic guitars and funky bass riffs in repetition, straddling the line between Funk and Post-Punk. Brilliant song, very underrated. The chiming xylophones in the background at the end and Jarvis' dischorded voice gives the song a slightly nightmarish and creepy feel. Help The Aged has always reminded me of Radiohead's Creep, as it uses similar chords, has a slow beat and a quiet/loud/quiet dynamic. Was never going to be a huge anthem but it's one of the easier songs to listen to on this album, and has a great opening lyric. I like it.

Speaking of comparing Pulp to Radiohead, This Is Hardcore is very much so their Paranoid Android. Fantastic track. Fantastic. Much like Radiohead's epic, this rock opera builds itself up and builds itself up to frenzied climax and then you're dropped into a "scene after" moment, where the music is subdued and is reflecting on the previous four or so minutes. The way the lyrics compare fame to sex reminds me a little of Yes by the Manic Street Preachers from The Holy Bible, a similar album to TIH in a way - although that song uses prositution for symbolism. Some of Jarvis' finest lyrics are nested in the song, and they suit the unhinged vibes of the song amazingly well.

TV Movie seems to be getting a bit of stick in this thread. Personally I think it's a nice little ditty that serves as a good mid-album song. Can't see it making many people's "Top 5 Pulp Songs" lists but I've heard worse. I do love A Little Soul though. Not surprised it got picked as a single as it's one of the poppier ones on here (although the lyrics are some of the darkest on the album). Beautiful, bittersweet, and fun to play on the acoustic guitar! Can't say I'm too fussed about I'm A Man though. It always sounds like it has potential at the beginning with the big rock sound it has going but I always end up getting bored.

Seductive Barry seems to be one which divides opinions. I love it. Maybe it's because I have a thing for songs in the key of D minor, but Pulp are the only band that could make a subject as essentially innocent as masturbation seem so chilling and edgy. I love the bass riff too and the way the song "explodes". The version at Finsbury Park is even better, with Jarvis making weird shrieking noises into the mic during the breakdown. Sylvia and Glory Days are the two other weak points on the album. Sylvia, while not a bad track, just comes off as a bit generic and bland, almost like they stuck the song in as an afterthought. I can understand the popularity of Glory Days as it's the closest the album gets to sounding like they did on Different Class but personally it just doesn't do it for me.

The Day After The Revolution has to be one of the best album closers ever. The bass riff reminds me a little of the breakdown in Trees and I just find it to be a good, solid rock song. The part where Jarvis breaks the fourth wall and tells the listener "you made it by the skin of your teeth" before listing things that are "over" is a nice finishing touch, it's as if he's saying to us that we made it through the bad times (symbolised through the rest of the album). And then there's the ever lasting note. It gives the impression of gazing into the morning sky as the sun is rising after a long night of despair and self-doubt, and realising that "the fear is over".

I think all their albums hit weak points for two or so or so songs so despite not being too fond of I'm A Man, Sylvia or Glory Days, these songs don't bring down the sheer brilliance of the rest of the album. Listening to it is like a cathartic experience. As I mentioned, it starts off bleak and gets optimistic towards the end. The first half is definitely the darker side of the record, up until A Little Soul. Afterwards, even though the tone of the songs are still moody, the lyrical content is a little less extreme. As I mentioned, it feels like a concept album, all about analysing one's problems and overcoming them. Still, the uplifting ending doesn't erase the general bleak feel of the album and the difficulty of listening to it if you're new to Pulp.

One of the greatest albums ever.

-- Edited by TheDev on Friday 15th of July 2011 01:14:32 AM

Haha, nah, it's an abbreviation of my surname. :)

I own the 2006 reissue and believe that Like A Friend and The Professional should have made the original cut - and not have Like A Friend innapropriately stuck on at the end of the US release!

Eamonn wrote:

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Yeah...and She Said She Was A Dancer. I still shake my head that they recorded that properly and left it off.

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Sorry if this is a stupid question (I specialise in 89-94 Pulp and am a bit hazy with a lot of Hardcore era details), but what is that song? No mention of it on the Pulp wiki.

Wow! I'd totally forgotten about this post.

Anyway, my views have definitely changed. I tend to like "Glory Days" and "Sylvia" more now but think that "Dishes" sounds like a filler. I think that the "This is Hardcore" album would have sold much better if they were sensible with the singles; "Glory Days" was an obvious hit single to start with, "Help The Aged" - a bit further down the line and "Party Hard" before the album...

Most of it is fantastic, but I have to say I'm a Man is one of my least favourite Pulp songs. Musically and lyrically uninteresting, it could have been written by any of the fairly average Britpop bands knocking around at the time, whereas every other song on the album has at least some qualities that make them stand out.

Like a Friend both should have been on the album and should have been a single.

ArrGee wrote:

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Ian wrote:

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I think that the "This is Hardcore" album would have sold much better if they were sensible with the singles..

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I didn't think there were any singles.  The thing I find about Hardcore is that if you listen to a track in isolation then it tends to not be that great, yet when you listen to the album in its entirety it is near flawless (Help The Aged still seems to jar a bit, but not as much as it does on its own).  There is far more depth to Hardcore than Different Class, and it sounds more considered.

I think Hardcore stands the test of time better than any other Pulp album, as it wasn't truly of its time, nor any time in particular.  I don't even believe it is the album Pulp intended to make, it just came out that way.  An accidental classic.

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Glory Days was an obvious single, cant understand why it was never released that way. Probably because of cocaine socialism. 

Obvious single for 98. Nowadays, not so much

Ian wrote:

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Wow! I'd totally forgotten about this post.

Anyway, my views have definitely changed. I tend to like "Glory Days" and "Sylvia" more now but think that "Dishes" sounds like a filler. I think that the "This is Hardcore" album would have sold much better if they were sensible with the singles; "Glory Days" was an obvious hit single to start with, "Help The Aged" - a bit further down the line and "Party Hard" before the album...

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 I agree that Party Hard should have been the lead single. I think the downbeat nature of Help The Aged put a few people off buying the album, whilst the more lively and simplistic Party Hard would have worked better promotionally.

I don't really understand why people say This is Hardcore is Pulp's 'dark' album, when surely Freaks conveys a lot darker ideas (Ten stories about power, claustaphobia, suffocation and holding hands). Maybe because the troubles talked about in This Is Hardcore (re. "Panic attacks, feeling old and dishes") are so mundane and normal, people can relate to them but even so ...maybe I am just getting the wrong messages from the lyrics:
Please enlighten me

-- Edited by Jazza on Friday 15th of July 2011 03:54:01 PM

Eamonn wrote:

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calumlynn wrote:

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calumlynn wrote:

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Eamonn wrote:

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Yeah...and She Said She Was A Dancer. I still shake my head that they recorded that properly and left it off.

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Sorry if this is a stupid question (I specialise in 89-94 Pulp and am a bit hazy with a lot of Hardcore era details), but what is that song? No mention of it on the Pulp wiki.

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Oh hang on, an old title for It's a Dirty World? In which case, why use both song titles in the same paragraph?

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 Sorry...I just prefer the alternative name and was probably being a bit of a smart-arse.

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Hahah oh it's okay, I just there may have been another version of it or something! And if we can't be smart arses when talking about our favourite band, when can we be?!

I always thought This Is Hardcore is more about overcoming desperation and the 'darkness' than the desperation and the darkness itself*. It's think it's kind of like an album themed around the saying "The darkest hour is before dawn", with the emphasis definitely on overcoming the crap and how to move forward - so TheDev's opening comments really resonated with me. It's more about coping with crap than crap itself.

And it's still my absolute country-mile favourite album ever, and I would be a terribly happy fellow to find something that could better it in my eyes. 

* no, not dark as an album (though let me say at risk of becoming a pariah: yes, it's fairly dark c.f. Different Class and His & Hers... it's not the wrist-slitting elegy it's painted as, but it's no picnic and pancake party) but there are undeiniably bleak themes. The album certainly addresses some sombre topics, but in a bloodyfucking gorgeous way.

Wow, I'm quite surprised with some views on This Is Hardcore; I think it is my favourite Pulp album. It doesn't really contain any filler for me, I love TV movie e.g. just because it's slower and semi-acoustic unlike most of their songs.

And I'm even more surprised that a lot of you seem to find Sylvia a filler or even worse. I don't dare say it but.. That's my favourite Pulp song from all their songs, bar none

It is difficult to say why This Is Hardcore is so important to me. I mean, I loved Pulp before it came along, I would still have loved Pulp if it had never been released or was different in some way.

But I just connected so much with that album. When you hear an album that starts with the lyrics, 'This is our music from a batchelors den, the sound of loneliness turned up to ten' then shortly afterwards comes, 'This is the sound of someone losing the plot, making out that they're ok when they're not' and you think to yourself, yeah that pretty much sums up my existence, you know you are about to experience an album that will move you, depress you, help you and in some ways even shape you.

So This Is Hardcore doesn't have the unique sound of His n' Hers, Intro or the Sisters EP. It doesn't have the consistency or singles potential of Different Class. But it does have moments that in my opinion peak above all that came before and afterwards.

My favourite Pulp album changes every week, but if really pressed, the first record that comes to mind  in answering that question is always This Is Hardcore. It took my love of Pulp to another level, and as my friends who had previously been into Pulp moved onto newer, perhaps more exciting music, I stayed with Pulp because of This Is Hardcore, and each record I have heard since has failed to match the emotions that album stirred in me.

I'd agree Like a Friend should have been on the album. Hell it should be on every album, it is such a magnificent song. I would however defend A little Soul, TV Movie, Glory Days, The Day After the Revoltion and Sylvia from all the above criticism.

On the subject of TIH can I ask something that has long bugged me, and may be common knowledge amongst Pulp fans for all I know, but what is said at the very end of The Day After the Revolution, after all the 'is overs', bye bye and the lingereing note. It seems to end with, 'I call these bands scum', is this correct and what comes immediately before?

Deebs wrote:

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On the subject of TIH can I ask something that has long bugged me, and may be common knowledge amongst Pulp fans for all I know, but what is said at the very end of The Day After the Revolution, after all the 'is overs', bye bye and the lingereing note. It seems to end with, 'I call these bands scum', is this correct and what comes immediately before?

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 It is a recording from the radio - "God called the expanse "sky"". I've got Jarvis' comments somewhere, I'll copy and paste them here later.

Thanks Ian, years of wondering and now I know.

I remember the first time I listened to The Day After the Revolution I was concerned by the latter part of the song, the finality of it all with all the 'is over's' and the 'bye bye'. Particularly with it being the last track on the album I convinced myself for a while that this was a clear indication that This is Hardcore would be Pulp's last release.

Thankfully I was wrong but maybe at the time the band were planning to stop at this album.

This is Hardcore is perfect if your feeling down. It has its fair share of misery and seedyness to wallow in, but by the end, especially with 'The Day After the Revolution' there is hope for positive change, although maybe only if we change ourselves a little first.

After This is Hardcore, We Love Life. 

I forgot to add, I think the reason I love TIH so much is that around the time I discovered it I was going through a pretty depressive period involving a girl and unrequited love and another guy...

Although none of the lyrics bar TV Movie really touch upon the theme of unrequited love they really struck a chord with me, that feeling of hopelessness, emotional fatigue and self analysis, trying to figure out how one's self allowed it to all go wrong and I ended up interpreting the lyrics in a way that fit the situation. They just rang true. And listening to it a lot really helped me cope and eventually - either directly or indirectly - led me to getting over her. So Jarvis's little speech at the end of TDATR had a whole different perspective for me

Usually when I listen to dark albums in a period when I'm feeling down records such as The Holy Bible, OK Computer and Closer, as brilliant as they all are, I just can't quite relate to them. But my discovery of TIH during one of the emotionally lowest periods of my life felt like a catharsis. And even listening to it now just reminds me of how much it helped me get through the situation.

Really I wouldn't have thought Pulp would be the band to help me get over depression but there you go.

(Apologies if this is a depressing read for any of you!)

I'm glad you like TV Movie and A Little Soul! They are two of my favourite songs! I was a bit miffed reading those first few posts...

Deebs wrote:

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...but by the end, especially with 'The Day After the Revolution' there is hope for positive change, although maybe only if we change ourselves a little first.

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I don't think of it as a depressing album, just a deeper more emotional and engaging album than any of the other Pulp albums.  As I am of a similar age to Jarvis and seem to have a very similar world view, the album struck a chord with me, more so than any other album I have ever heard.  Dishes, Help The Aged, Glory Days and A Little Soul resonated very strongly.

As for the positive change, I did get married three or four months after the album came out, but my wife would probably be the better judge of how positive that change was .

 

ArrGee wrote:

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Deebs wrote:

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...but by the end, especially with 'The Day After the Revolution' there is hope for positive change, although maybe only if we change ourselves a little first.

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I don't think of it as a depressing album, just a deeper more emotional and engaging album than any of the other Pulp albums.  As I am of a similar age to Jarvis and seem to have a very similar world view, the album struck a chord with me, more so than any other album I have ever heard.  Dishes, Help The Aged, Glory Days and A Little Soul resonated very strongly.

As for the positive change, I did get married three or four months after the album came out, but my wife would probably be the better judge of how positive that change was .

 

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It's not a depressive album at all, rather postive i'd say although its tone can be dark sometimes. I was 17 when it came out and it had a huge impact on me, my life and the way i saw/see things. It was more or less "i'm not the only one" although the guy singing was in his mid 30s. To me its the best Pulp record coz it's musically huge and lyrically very profound and meaningful.

 

-- Edited by andy on Thursday 1st of December 2011 03:30:31 PM

Perfect wrote:

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 But I would like a non-vocoder version of "Laides man". 

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 Have you heard the version that Jarvis did live with Air?

I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive the group for leaving Its A Dirty World off the final album. After This Is Hardcore (the song) it may be the most mindblowing track they ever recorded.

My favourite bit in Owen Hatherley's book Uncommon is when he critiques TIH and makes an alternative tracklist with a lot of songs that didn't make the cut. I've always struggled to create an improved tracklisting but I think he nails it with pretty persuasive reasoning (though I disagree with his dissing of certain songs).

I just have the book beside me here, his choices seem to be:

The Fear
The Professional (instead of Dishes)
Party Hard
Help The Aged
This Is Hardcore
Like A Friend (TV Movie dropped)
A Little Soul

Ladies Man
My Erection (Both of these in place of Seductive Barry)

It's A Dirty World (Sylvia makes way)
We Are The Boyz (I'm A Man goes bye-bye)
Cocaine Socialism (no Glory Days)
The Day After The Revolution


He retains some criticism (and praise) for Help The Aged and The Day After The Revolution but offers no substitutes in their place. Even if you don't agree with all the choices his arguments are very-well laid out.

Yeah, not one I would have put on.

According to the author though; "The careering glam of We Are The Boyz puts across the same men-are-scum line as I'm A Man (a rethread of Misshapes that ends up sounding more like Meatloaf) with vastly more aplomb and considerably less clutter''.

The only notable published books on Pulp (by Messrs Sturdy and Hatherley) share the same opinion of Dishes. Lovely music let down horribly by the lyrics. I don't necessarily agree (I quite like playing and singing it at the piano) but they make good points about Jarvis congratulating himself for attempting to be as hundrum and mundane as he rest of us.

Well yeah, but arguably a better one and in some cases, songs that are more ''This Is Hardcore'' than what ended-up on there.

I wouldn't be surprised if record label pressure/the band's own fear of commercial rejection meant putting Sylvia or I'm A Man on instead of something like The Professional or Ladies Man - two unusual, challenging tracks, a world away from Different Class Pulp, but that seem to reflect the album better instead of the halfway-house efforts of the aforementioned Sylvia and I'm A Man.

The common criticism of TIH is that the second side is frustrating in the quality being uneven and not as brave as the first half. I love the album but I think it's a fair criticism.

Actually I'd forgotten about that. You're right, it's decent. I think he managed to get interviews with all the band too, in which they talked in-depth (probably for the first time publicly) about their secret history.

saw119 wrote:

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Perfect wrote:

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 But I would like a non-vocoder version of "Laides man". 

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 Have you heard the version that Jarvis did live with Air?

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 No, is it available somewhere? 

andy wrote:

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I doubt there was any pressure from the label, maybe, maybe not. But in 98, Pulp had the power to do whatever they wanted really. If the label had pressured the band, then Street Operator and You are the One would be on there. and This is hardcore wouldnt have been a single.

 

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You're probably right (from Jarvis' notes about Street Operator and You Are The One it seems so), Pulp seemed pretty much in control after how well Different Class had done. 

But you never know what they were thinking when choosing the songs -whether adding a couple of more standard rock/pop songs would soften the album a bit and make it more appealing. 

Rather than diving completely off the cliff marked ''commercial success'' they kind of did a Jimmy from Quadrophenia on it. Jarvis has already admitted he lost his bottle over Cocaine Socialism (personally I'm glad he did, I prefer Glory Days). And as Hatherley mentions in his book the likes of Dirty World, Ladies Man and The Professional sound ''much more likely than the album's apologies and fudges''.

I love Glory Days, but I think Cocaine Socialism has the edge. Slightly better lyrics, and the brass is wonderful.

I had always thought a major part of Russell leaving wasn't so much the band's change in musical style, but the fact that Jarvis had taken to coming in with his own completed songs (i.e. Help the Aged) and telling the band that they would be playing them. When you consider how many of the pre-TIH songs came from jams and half formed songs, it must have been pretty galling to be treated like session musicians, without any say in what was being composed in your name.

Presumably someone like Steve was more ok with this style of working, as shown by him continuing to play with Jarvis on his solo albums when he had even less say in what went on. Does he have any songwriting credits on JC or FC...?

As for singles, has anyone considered that they may have been in a no-win situation? What I'm saying is that they could have released "Glory Days" as a single and been slated for releasing something that sounds like "Common People" but instead, they released the title track as a single and got slated for being "dark". Does anyone follow?

Ian wrote:

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... but is (very slightly) let down by the "Dishes" lyrics. It's a good song but the lyrics seem to lack a bit of imagination.

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 I think Dishes is a great song both lyrically and musically.   The lyrics give a sense of humility and a sense of not having to care about the big  picture, but doing what we can while we are here.  The understatement makes it interesting.

I also think Hardcore is more or less a perfect album.  It is far more than the sum of its parts and the tinkering suggested would lessen the album not improve it.  Much like a football team, just selecting the best eleven doesn't necessarilly make the best team.  Help The Aged does jar a little for me as I never liked the single, but I can see why it makes the cut and had it just been a part of the album I'd probably just see it in the context of the album,

Experts, pah

It's all about opinions innit.

I mean, when will Arsenal ever stop being 'potentially'' brilliant with all their young lads and just win a fucking trophy?

How can a song that starts with 'I am not Jesus, though I have the same initials' do any wrong? I think it's definitely one of the best songs of the album - if any had to be replaced, I'd say Seductive Barry

raking clothes off? That sounds painful. I don't dislike Seductive Barry but if it could be replaced by something better I wouldn't say no

Eamonn wrote:

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It's all about opinions innit.

I mean, when will Arsenal ever stop being 'potentially'' brilliant with all their young lads and just win a fucking trophy?

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Even on Pulp forums, I get this 

Truth is, Arsenal ain't so great, nor have they been in the five years.  Too lightweight in the middle and soft at the back and dependent on an injury prone super striker.  Once RvP gets injured, they'll be slipping down the table.