Dissing A.I. by using A.I. and proving that it's garbage. Ha! I love it.

As expected, Spike Island sounds even better on record. Bring on the album. Glory days are here again.

-- Edited by Pip on Thursday 10th of April 2025 12:44:18 PM

It's a much better recording than After You. I like it, a lot. I'm very excited!

Pulp k-pop style or AI i was not ready

The people having a go at the AI in the comments, oh dear. Clearly didn't even read the words & understand the satire. I feel sorry for them, not angry.

Wait, you guys read the description? Album out June 6th!!

How can they be so perfect in everything they do ? It's unbelievable.

It sounds so good! What a wonderful announcement to wake up to!

I'm still not sure about the video... I can see what they're trying to do, obviously, but all the same, they have still have used AI to do it. I understand it conceptually and how it ties in to past Pulp subjects (like the tongue-in-cheek 'Bad Cover Version' music video or the fake airbrushing of the His 'N' Hers and This Is Hardcore covers). I know it's an ironic statement, but I dunno, it feels slightly cheapened to me? Especially given what we know about the power-guzzling nature of generative AI. It's an attack on AI but they have still ultimately gone and used it to do so. Didn't have that on the cards.
I don't think it stands next to previous Pulp videos in terms of quality.

But these are minor grumbles in the scheme of things, and I'm so enthused about this song and the new album!!!

 

-- Edited by lipglossed on Thursday 10th of April 2025 02:19:27 PM

it's good but it has no surprise and I bet the same for Background Noise, pretty simple structure but works as a first single

Bookmark wrote:

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it's good but it has no surprise and I bet the same for Background Noise, pretty simple structure but works as a first single

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I do think Background Noise might be the next one. Or maybe 'Tina', that sounds interesting.

I really like how it's mixed. I like how intuitively you can hear all the members. I like how it sounds like they've picked up where they left off back in 2001.

lipglossed wrote:

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Bookmark wrote:

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it's good but it has no surprise and I bet the same for Background Noise, pretty simple structure but works as a first single

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I do think Background Noise might be the next one. Or maybe 'Tina', that sounds interesting.

I really like how it's mixed. I like how intuitively you can hear all the members. I like how it sounds like they've picked up where they left off back in 2001.

---

 That's what I noticed. You can hear Nick's drums and Candida's keys and Mark's guitar that is pushing towards prog at times.

I like the song. It reminds me of Day After The Revolution and sounds really clear. I love "I exist...to do this" as well.

Needs more of a chorus to be a first single, but it's still good. How will it go down in stadiums? No idea. I can't imagine more than half of any of those huge audiences is going to have heard it.

weej wrote:

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Curious as to whether it will chart. I mean, top 40? What are we thinking?

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Ought to do better than After You did at least.

For reference, Blur's comeback single, 'The Narcissist', charted at #81. Can we beat that?

triciathetree wrote:

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lipglossed wrote:

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I'm still not sure about the video I can see what they're trying to do, obviously, but all the same, they have still have used AI to do it. I understand it conceptually and how it ties in to past Pulp subjects (like the tongue-in-cheek 'Bad Cover Version' music video or the fake airbrushing of the His 'N' Hers and This Is Hardcore covers). I know it's an ironic statement, but I dunno, it feels slightly cheapened to me? Especially given what we know about the power-guzzling nature of generative AI. It's an attack on AI but they have still ultimately gone and used it to do so.
I don't think it stands next to previous Pulp videos in terms of quality.

But these are minor grumbles in the scheme of things, and I'm so enthused about this song and the new album!!!

-- Edited by lipglossed on Thursday 10th of April 2025 02:18:50 PM

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 Agreed I feel conflicted about it. I appreciate the message but its still using AI at the end of the day for sort of an overall lazy video 

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 Same here, not a big fan

lipglossed wrote:

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The actual album cover isn't AI-generated is it? Hope not, I think it's the image that he fed into the app to get that part of the video...

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 It looks unperfect enough to not be AI. 

lipglossed wrote:

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I'm still not sure about the video... I can see what they're trying to do, obviously, but all the same, they have still have used AI to do it. I understand it conceptually and how it ties in to past Pulp subjects (like the tongue-in-cheek 'Bad Cover Version' music video or the fake airbrushing of the His 'N' Hers and This Is Hardcore covers). I know it's an ironic statement, but I dunno, it feels slightly cheapened to me? Especially given what we know about the power-guzzling nature of generative AI. It's an attack on AI but they have still ultimately gone and used it to do so. Didn't have that on the cards.
I don't think it stands next to previous Pulp videos in terms of quality.

But these are minor grumbles in the scheme of things, and I'm so enthused about this song and the new album!!!

 

-- Edited by lipglossed on Thursday 10th of April 2025 02:19:27 PM

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Remember Jarvis' heritage though making the amazing old Warp videos.  To me the grotesqueness of this was quite a call back to say the Aphex Twin/Come to Daddy sort of stuff

Incredible song. What a wonderful thing to wake up to!

I really don't have a lot of time for it. Sorry. I mean, I too can recognise it as irony but that doesn't give it a pass. The press release for the single reads more like he was simply fooling around with AI for shits and giggles. Knowing the hideously wasteful environmental impact of AI, and the fact it's putting tons of artists out of work right now, hopping on the bandwagon as a means to decry it just feels cheap, slapdash, and unworthy of Pulp. It's Facebook boomer-humour, not a genuine or earnest sentiment. Yes, the results are preposterous and soulless, but of course they're going to be - yet anyone who thinks the opposite isn't going to see this video as soulless either, are they? It's not an effective satirisation because the pro-AI people are just gonna go "Look, Pulp used AI for their video!" It's not a particularly sophisticated artistic statement.

I'm sorry if this all seems a bit po-faced, sense of humour failure or whatever... I know it's all meant as tongue-in-cheek, I know the results are laughable, but for me - and this is strictly IMO - it kind of cheapens the wonderful single put out, this amazing, reflective, moving song, that instead of accompanying it with a more sincere or earnest visual (hell, why not just show us the original photoset set to music?), or something a bit cleverer that interrogates the AI a bit further, they've gone with... this. And I know it's meant to look bad, but maybe the first Pulp single in twelve years should have a video that looks good! Why the self-deprecation?

It'll age incredibly poorly besides Pulp's other videos. And they didn't need to go the whole hog and give us 'This Is Hardcore 2.0' - think about the moving photoset that accompanies 'Glory Days' live, why not just use something like that? They didn't need anything high-effort or complex, but this feels like the lowest common denominator. Firing up an AI to laugh at the results is ultimately still using the AI. I'm sorry, but self-aware drivel is still drivel. 

(Not meaning to jump down your throat, Pip! I just needed to rant I think.)

-- Edited by lipglossed on Thursday 10th of April 2025 06:10:57 PM

weej wrote:

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I agree with you lipgloss, but what I have to remind myself quite often is that lots of people (including most of the artists I like) are not as chronically online as I am - the zero tolerance stance on AI is something fairly recent, and even a year ago lots of people taking that stance now were happily playing with it like this. Using AI to mock AI is like a joke which we're all tired of now, but things take longer to filter through if you're not on Twitter / BlueSky all the time.

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 That's a fair enough point. Will have to admit I'm probably even more chronically online than you.

I agree the use of AI is disappointing. I wish they'd done a regular music video instead of this, but it is what it is. I'm glad I listened to the song first before I watched the video, because it probably would've impacted how much I enjoyed my first listen. I'm just trying to put it out of my head and not let it affect how excited I am about the song.

Is it that disappointing ? Like every revolution, sure its gonna take some work away.

But my view on the matter is that like fake pop music vs indie music, there will always be a market for non AI music, videos... etc. Because people still want to connect with reality. Maybe not this generation, but the next could take the next turn. Look what happened with vinyls, and cassettes. And Organic food, and analog albums vs digital.

If there was a way to tackle the subject, that was the way to do it. Its smart. Could have been different or better.

But there's still hope for a music genre with non AI in it. We will have movie category "Non AI" just like "Comedy" or "Thriller". There will be a "Non AI" music category soon enough too. And it will still make tons of money.

triciathetree wrote:

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weej wrote:

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I agree with you lipgloss, but what I have to remind myself quite often is that lots of people (including most of the artists I like) are not as chronically online as I am - the zero tolerance stance on AI is something fairly recent, and even a year ago lots of people taking that stance now were happily playing with it like this. Using AI to mock AI is like a joke which we're all tired of now, but things take longer to filter through if you're not on Twitter / BlueSky all the time.

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Still dont love it but this Is very true. Many people my age dont even know the environmental impacts of AI because they simply arent online enough to know and just view it as a funny tool. I was discussing this with a friend and again, not an excuse but Jarvis IS in his 60s and undoubtedly not online a lot

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 Yeah, that's also a very fair point.

I don't want my negativity to swamp the thread when we've got such an amazing song and I'm so bubbling with excitement that Pulp are back and getting a new album! Like, if any of Pulp are reading this, I know I've been really harsh on the video but I love the song so much !!

I've been repeating this song since morning and will continue for a couple of days. lovely!

-- Edited by lucyduck on Thursday 10th of April 2025 07:48:31 PM

Video aside, I'm really so in love with this song. It made me cry a bit my first listen. I saw it live in September so it feels really special that it's the first single. I knew I was going to love the studio version, but it still blew me away. I still can't believe we're getting new Pulp music!

I love everything about it too: the song, the video, absolutely EVERYTHING. I'm happy. I don't even care that some people think it's "another AI-generated video": those images are a real nod to those of us who have spent years collecting the singles, swapping covers, or (not while listening) reading the lyrics. It can't be easy for that video to move you, if you don't have the emotional connection that many of us have with those photographs. Such a day. Such a wonderful song.

Well, that is the other side. It really pulls at your personal Different Class memories, the gateway for many of us. I remember borrowing a cassette of the album aged 14 and staring at the striking pictures within the DC booklet. Mesmerised by them almost as much as the adjoining lyrics and the music (yeah, I did read the words while listening, sue me Jarv). This morning when I saw JC's Insta post with a brief clip of the video I thought it was actual footage from the original photo sessions. Felt a bit silly that I'd been AI-duped.

Oh , well, of course I wasn't thinking about people in this forum! Connection with the band of the people here doesn't need to be proved! I was referring to some people on social media saying "song is ok, bur they used AI on the vid, that sucks". 

-- Edited by srhelvetica on Thursday 10th of April 2025 08:50:21 PM

srhelvetica wrote:

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Oh , well, of course I wasn't thinking about people in this forum! Connection with the band of the people here doesn't need to be proved! I was referring to some people on social media saying "song is ok, bur they used AI on the vid, that sucks". 

-- Edited by srhelvetica on Thursday 10th of April 2025 08:50:21 PM

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I did see a lot of comments like that on Reddit. I think it's a shame about the video using something so controversial like AI because a lot of people are just talking about the AI usage instead of the song itself. I feel bad having been even slightly negative about it earlier, because I'm just so happy they're making music again and I want to be as supportive of that as I can.

Four stars from Alexis Petridis in the Grauniad: www.theguardian.com/music/2025/apr/10/pulp-spike-island-review-jarvis-cocker-and-cos-joyous-second-coming

"Perhaps Cocker is looking back on Pulps own supposed glory days with greater perspective: Spike Island references his discomfort with fame (I was conforming to a cosmic design, I was playing to type), and the indifference Pulps disbanding was greeted with in the early 00s, when a theoretically valedictory greatest hits album barely scraped the Top 75: The universe shrugged and moved on.

But Cocker seems emboldened at the prospect of his own second coming. He suggests that this time Ill get it right and that he has walked back to the garden of earthly delights. He sings happily: I was born to perform, its a calling / I exist to do this shouting and pointing. Students of rock history might recognise the last three words as the title of an ignored 1976 album by Mott, the dogged but doomed attempt by members of Mott the Hoople to soldier on without lead singer Ian Hunter. References to 1970s pop-culture arcana are, of course, very Pulp and so are a lot of other things about Spike Island: the disco-influenced rhythm (decorated with the distinctive sound of syndrums), the brief spoken-word section, and the sense that complicated emotions lurk behind its anthemic chorus.

For all the conflicted feelings at its centre, Spike Island is a noticeably stronger song than After You, the solitary new track spawned by Pulps previous reformation, in the early 2010s. Had Spike Island been released in their heyday or instead of the strikingly downbeat Help the Aged in 1997 it would doubtless have been a hit."

The song is brilliant. I've been listening to it on repeat all day now

Yeah - it's simultaneously self-aware, modest, silly and boastful. Incredible really.

The Spotify credits has the writers as all of Pulp plus Buckle, Betts, McKinney and Smith. The latter three must pinch themselves. They're great musicians of course but being plucked by Pulp has made their careers a fair bit more lucrative and rewarding.

new Stereolab video also copped flack for its use of AI to create the video.

Who the hell is Al

Technically, they do feature as cardboard cutouts. They might feature in person in the video for the next single (Got to Have Love?)

I know this is really weird but all of yesterday after watching the video for 'Spike Island' - I was thinking it reminds me of something... Then when I was on the train going home after work I was like ohhhh it reminds me of The Beatles 'Free as a Bird'. The looking back, friends not here, time capsule of DC. Silly thought.

-- Edited by cutcopy on Saturday 12th of April 2025 12:12:38 AM

Weird thing about Jarvis is that his voice is not really aging. Most artists tend to have a different tone when they get older. But Jarvis still has his 30s tone. Amazing.

I notice that there does seem to be a radio edit, which cuts the intro and instrumentals at the start of the second verse and bridge. Did think those parts might hinder its airplay so I guess it's fair enough.

It's on jukeboxes (at least in my local WMC)

This is all very exciting. A little flat on first listen but its really grown on me, a great portent for the album.

Have to say I dont understand the bellyaching about the video. Its a gentle prod at AI, nothing more nothing less. And thats why we have a video - its a way of creating a talking point when otherwise no ones paying for a proper video (see also the three week recording schedule, with due credit to increased band discipline!).

Plus it sounds like it was quite an organic process. He was investigating AI for himself, used it to create this video (at least giving it a purpose), and this has led him to several conclusions - predominantly anti-AI - which he shares both during the finished video and in interviews.

He's not some kid on a smartphone or PC constantly churning out AI content night and day for his socials, he's a man in his sixties learning about new technology. Let's not crucify him for that (he is not Jesus, though he has the same initials).

It's just the Internet isn't it where people seem to react too quickly without properly reading something or listening or watching and then totally missing the point. I'd say too many just didn't read the text in the video. I miss the pre Internet days sometimes but then I remember WLL coming out and feeling like the only Pulp fan around. This time round it's more collective because I can read all of your thoughts on it too. Pros and cons to everything.

-- Edited by Jean on Sunday 13th of April 2025 11:11:39 AM

That's actually true I'd say! I remember seeing stats on how many copies were sold in Ireland and thinking I probably really was the only person in Kildare who bought it.
Still that way by the way. Lady in work who was in her 20s in the 90s and should know better asked me during the week, 'oh, are they the ones that sing Parklife?' end of conversation.

I do think the argument that 'people who don't like it just haven't read the words properly' does fall flat for me. You can ingest the message and understand the intent of the video and still feel let down by it, I think.

Anyway, I've already made my thoughts clear about this.

-- Edited by lipglossed on Sunday 13th of April 2025 12:00:47 PM

Eamonn wrote:

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I still think you were bang-on with a lot of what you wrote.

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 I appreciate that, although I hope I didn't get too carried away with it.

Anyway - what do we think will be single #2 folks? Got To Have Love, or Background Noise? Or maybe one of the ones we haven't heard yet?

Oh, and fascinated what the three totally unknowns might sound like - Tina, Grown-Ups and Total Eclipse Of The Heart.

-- Edited by Eamonn on Sunday 13th of April 2025 04:03:51 PM

Eamonn wrote:

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Ian made a good observation about the weighting of ballads on the album hopefully not being too top-heavy. I think one of the two you mention is most likely.

But...My Sex has a groove and amazing lyrics that will get public attention. Does it have enough of a hook for public consumption? Not sure but I think it's going to be a stand-out track on the record.

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I agree 'My Sex' sounds like Pulp's best song since 'Wickerman', and a crucial addition to the Pulp Canon. Great lyrics and great groove get it out there!

I do love 'Background Noise' (I think it's stronger than 'Spike Island', which I do still like).

Moreover, I've noticed that the Pulp record bundle on the shop includes a lyric sticker from 'Farmers Market' ("Ain't it time we started living?") seeing as the 'Spike Island' MV concludes with "maybe we need to consider other ways of coming alive", perhaps it's hinting at FM being the next single?

Thinking about past Pulp albums:

His 'N' Hers: singles were Lipgloss (track 2), First Time? (track 8 vinyl/9 cd), Babies reissue (track 5 cd)
Different Class: singles were Common People (track 3), Mis-Shapes (track 1), Sorted (track 7), Disco 2000 (track 5), Something Changed (track 8)
This Is Hardcore: singles were Help the Aged (track 4), This Is Hardcore (track 5), A Little Soul (track 7), Party Hard (track 3)
We Love Life: singles were Sunrise (track 11), Trees (track 4), Bad Cover Version (track 9)

Out of those, I'd argue Different Class's were all kind of key singles, Lipgloss and Help the Aged were both released quite early, and generally it's pretty widely dispersed. Really, they've had big singles on every position from 1-5 and also 8.

I think you're right though, bands rarely lead with their strongest track (perhaps to make sure it doesn't overshadow the rest of the album). Blur's Girls and Boys is a notable exception in that they put the biggest hit first.

-- Edited by lipglossed on Sunday 13th of April 2025 04:40:01 PM

He wouldn't be my pick for the song's production, but I'd love to hear an Ed Buller version of Spike Island. Just for the sake of comparison.

This is a really great thread - lots of truths. lipglossed or anyone in this thread have your read Filterworld: How Algorithms Flattened Culture : Kyle Chayka or Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist bu Liz Pelly. Really recommend. I dislike Spotify so so much. I was a late user due to some project at my work and it really messed about my passion for music as it became about 'consumption'. Have gone back to being only physical media and actually "living" with albums / CDs.

For something generated in this way I was taken aback by how much it got a very human response from me ie. tears in my eyes. That spooked me because I am on the side of it being deeply unethical to artists, authors, musicians and creative workers and feeding the data beast of Big Tech. AND dont get me started on the planet guzzling resources it takes to feed it.

With the stealing of artists (like himself) to train models / regurgitate theft ie your LibGens it will come with pushback that I would love to hear him unpack a little more.

Still unsure if it passes the pub test for me but I do like that once you get past Jarvis the prompt engineer the video has a good message -- that there is still a need for human interaction + AI is flagrantly dodgy but gives a really good impression of being able to turn human ideas into real-world creations (which people seem to be ok with) + and is clearly labelled and identified as AI generated so viewers can make the decision to watch or pass.

There was controversary over the TIH cover (and rightly so) even Peter Saville thought it was problematic at the time and still does.

Its all very interesting to read over and see all the for and against. I understand that generative AI is very emotional for folks trying to grapple with its """""ethics""""" I work in libraries and every conference I go to there is a lot of AI content so I have lots of thoughts on it and really like reading about it. It is both impacting and streamlining my work. 

I dig the song very much (how gold is the line 'I exist to do this, shouting and pointing') and I cant quite believe that we are eyeballing a new Pulp album. I am super pumped. 

-- Edited by cutcopy on Monday 14th of April 2025 04:21:09 AM