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Post Info TOPIC: Has This Is Hardcore overtaken Pulp's other records as the group's 'landmark' album?
lipglossed


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Has This Is Hardcore overtaken Pulp's other records as the group's 'landmark' album?
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Reflecting on all this Hardcore anniversary stuff.

To me, it always seemed that His 'N' Hers was the fan favourite, Different Class the hit record, and This Is Hardcore - the most self-consciously 'arty' one - was the riposte to those two: adventurous, downbeat and inconsistent. It was difficult to quibble with Different Class being taken as Pulp's one 'big' LP, the same way Parklife is Blur's or OK Computer is Radiohead's.

All the same, though, there's been an awful lot of Hardcore stuff lately, hasn't there? I mean, sure, 25 years last year but His 'N' Hers turned 30 *this* year and there's been nary a peep, nothing. Different Class turns 30 next year and as far as we know, nothing seems to be in the pipeline. But This Is Hardcore has inspired two books,  several newspaper columns, events... it's definitely been in the limelight as late, even if the band barely play any of it live.

So I'm curious. It kind of feels like this is the final, long-awaited, rehabilitation phase of the album. As if it's having its moment in the sun. But also, is it possible that the wider critical consensus surrounding the album, and Pulp's discography, might be changing? Is This Is Hardcore increasingly being seen as their masterpiece?



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andy


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It is their Masterpiece for me. It has everything : a big risk, a double album if you count the bsides, a sound that makes an album unique.

And it came at a perfect time for me. I hopped on the Pulp train a bit late, in 96, when Different Class had already been released. So for me This is Hardcore was the first "real" release. And it was LONG. A long wait from summer 96 when i really starter to dig Pulp until March 98. The longer was probably between the single release of Help  the Aged and the LP release: november to march, god that was long when you are 17. Between that, i overplayed the single, the bsides, then Like a Friend version from Great Expectations soundtrack and the cover of All Time High. 

Would i like this record ? Would it more like DC or HNH ? Or completely different...

Then, the first play of the record in its entirety in the Virgin Megastore. I stood for 69 minutes and 49 seconds in the store, listening to the thing on those booth biggrin I remember being blown away by the fear, and A little Soul & TV Movie really stuck in my head after that first play. Then i came home vinyl and CD in hand. At home, looking at those booklet notes (not whilst listening to the record of course)... and the smell of that booklet. It smelled sexy didn't it ? biggrin

And then, there was the singles releases and the bsides. It used to be a yearly experience, those record releases. Every 3 months or so, new songs to add to those already excellent records...

It was pivotal year in my life and this plays a role too i guess. This is Hardcore will always be the soundtrack of that year. Its a damn great record too. and i never understood the hate for it. I suppose people were too spoilt back then and were quick to dismiss something that was a bit out there or not what they expected.

If i had to only keep 10 records, it would be on the list. I really hope there's more to discover from that era, but it looks like they already released it all. 



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ArrGee


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lipglossed wrote:

Is This Is Hardcore increasingly being seen as their masterpiece?

I always thought it was, but I dont think the wider world sees it as one nor will it.   Also it was a full stop at the end of the 1990s.  Whilst blur and suede had #1 LPs the following year there was a sense of them being the last gasp than something enduring.  Listening to The Day After The Revolution retrospectively it feels as if it captured the moment.  Everything was over.  From a personal perspective, my youth was over as I was about to get married, which has defined my life ever since. Of course, had pulp not had to worry about selling records, artistically they could have left it there and be done with the music industry.   
I understand why it was not widely liked as there was more going on than the previous LPs which mainly focused on sex and had the singalongs.  Hardcore was a pretty personal LP and given Jarvis and I are of a similar age, I found it quite profound and there was a lot on there that I could relate to in my life.
Of all the pulp LPs, this is the one I find I listen to above all the others.  It is a masterpiece, but I suspect very few see it that way!



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Ian


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I don't think that there has ever really been any particular "hate" for the album. Most reviews described it as dark, perhaps in part to the band's comments around the time it was released, and of course the singles. Sure, it is a bit darker than the previous two records but hardly "Freaks".

I remember Jarvis saying on the radio that they wanted to keep it Pulp but push the boat out. I'd say that this description was pretty accurate. For example, the title track goes a bit further than "I Spy", "Seductive Barry" is similar to "FEELINGCALLEDLOVE" but without the huge chorus and the verses of "Help the Aged" could be described as similar to "Live Bed Show" then a big anthemic chorus kicks in. Also, the subject matter of some of the songs (ageing, dying, porn) had certainly been hinted at before but is dealt with outright on this album.

I would say that it falls a tiny bit short of being a masterpiece because "TV Movie" and "A Little Soul" are substandard (sorry!). I would have used them as B-sides and included "It's a Dirty World" and "The Professional" on the album before and after the title track respectively.

The comments above around B-sides are pretty justified; they here are certainly more interesting than the "Different Class" ones. Whether it's the slow-burning "Tomorrow Never Lies" and "Laughing Boy", the "song of two halves" nature of "Like A Friend" (which could have arguably paved the way for later songs like "Sunrise" and "I Love Life"), the experimentation of "Ladies Man" and "That Boy's Evil" or the huge comeback single that never was ("Cocaine Socialism"), listening to them is always rewarding.

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andy


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"TV Movie" and "A Little Soul" substandard ! WOW !.??? they are melodic masterpieces, and lyrics are so spot on. Especially Little soul. The way TV Movie builds up from a simple acoustic song to a huge chorus, i mean, as a musician, i'm still impressed 26 years later.

It's a Dirty World sounds like a terrible 80s pastiche next to them and i'm glad it was left off the album. TIH should have a been a double album. It was an era of great double albums. Another missed opportunity.

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ArrGee


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andy wrote:

"TV Movie" and "A Little Soul" substandard ! WOW !.??? they are melodic masterpieces, and lyrics are so spot on. Especially Little soul. The way TV Movie builds up from a simple acoustic song to a huge chorus, i mean, as a musician, i'm still impressed 26 years later.

It's a Dirty World sounds like a terrible 80s pastiche next to them and i'm glad it was left off the album. TIH should have a been a double album. It was an era of great double albums. Another missed opportunity.

I agree. Neither are sub standard. I think A Little Soul is very emotive and personal, exploring father/son dynamics. Now I am the father of a twenty something, it's weird that there are some of the emotional aspects of my relationship with my son are similar to those I had with my father. Though to be fair to myself, I am more engaged and have a far better relationship on the whole (hopefully my son agrees!).

Given the length of the LP, it is effectively a double LP,  that was on a single CD.   London Calling from The Clash was released as a single CD and that is probably the best double LP I have in that I play all four sides. And that was released in 1979.



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Ian


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I'd say that "TV Movie" is the better of the two but to me, it's just a rather unremarkable song. It was the first song I listened to when I bought the album because I had already heard the first 5 on the radio or because they were singles. I was a bit underwhelmed to be honest. And as for "A Little Soul", the only good things about it for me are the music video and its B-sides.

I kind of get where you are coming from regarding a double album. Some of the B-sides (particularly "Like a Friend" and "The Professional") would have made great album tracks and with a little bit of polishing, so would "Modern Marriage".

Another interesting point to note is that I vaguely remember Jarvis saying in an interview that they had written about 40 songs between 1996 and 1998. Granted, some probably never made it past rehearsals but there may be a couple of unheard (of) songs from this period in the vaults. We only know about "Grown Ups" which was left off the deluxe because it was an instrumental. There is also a version of "Party Hard" with either an extra verse or different lyrics (see the Christopher Just remix).

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Eamonn


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To steer the chat back to the original question (think we've done the "What would be your TIH tracklisting?" to death), it's an interesting point.

I think there's some degree of timing/coincidence - Paul Burgess wanted to write a book on his work with Pulp and TIH is the era where he was present more than others plus its a visually striking period in terms of the videos and record sleeves.

Jane Savidge knew Jarvis pre-fame and post-nervousbreakdown fame so I can see why she'd choose this album to write about. While it was also Mark's first proper Pulp record as a member of the group.

These people have all been associated with Pulp through their careers. I'm not sure outside of that, there has been a re-evaluation of the record - beyond think-pieces to promote the above books. Maybe there has. But I like Jarvis' description of it in the deluxe edition "the most successful rendition of the sound of failure ever put to tape" or similar. Which perfectly sums up the album's flaws and bravery and even Jarvis' relationship with it, which still affects him to this day (ie being "triggered" by the idea of playing "The Fear" live).


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ArrGee


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Eamonn wrote:

"the most successful rendition of the sound of failure ever put to tape"

There is a lot in that statement!  And I get it, which may be even worse hmm.  There are numerous acts that have torn up the template that made them popular, yet I cant think of any that pulled it off, except pulp. Bowie did it with The Gouster/Young Americans which was hit and miss.  Fame as good as it is can be contrasted with the cover of Across The Universe.  Whatever anyone expected as the follow up to Different Class, Hardcore wasnt it.  The first two singles were as far divorced from Different Class as you could imagine. This was no evolution it was revolution.   Most acts off the back of a spectacular commercially successful and critically acclaimed album would just follow it up with more of the same.  Except pulp. smile



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Pulp Friction


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ArrGee wrote:
This was no evolution it was revolution.   Most acts off the back of a spectacular commercially successful and critically acclaimed album would just follow it up with more of the same.  Except pulp. smile

Pulp already had the habit of significantly changing their style from one album to the next. His n Hers and Different Class are arguably an exception to that, but there is still substantial evolution from one to the next. So I don't think anyone should have been surprised that TIH was different, but it's understandable that they were surprised by the ways in which it was different and by how very different it was.

I agree with the premise that This is Hardcore is Pulp's masterpiece, and it resonates for me in many of the same ways it resonates for you. But it's third in a superlative four-album run. On any given day I might persuade myself that any of the other three is the real masterpiece (IMHO His n Hers has the weakest claim, excellent though it is). But TIH is the one I revisit most often.

Without rehashing too much of the track listing discussion I'll mention again that the North American release has the short outro version of Day After, followed by  Like a Friend. That was the only TIH I knew until a couple of years ago and in that form I consider it a near-perfect album.



-- Edited by Pulp Friction on Monday 25th of November 2024 01:12:01 AM

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sabrina


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Following the US tour, it was clear that for a lot of Americans that, for them, TIH is Pulp's 'landmark' album - the whole venue seemed to come alive when they played 'Hardcore' and when they opened the encore with 'Like A Friend'. But I still think that DC is perceived as Pulp's 'big' album, at least in the UK and Aus too.

I wonder if the circumstances around Hardcore and its themes are less straightforward than DC or HNH and therefore provide greater 'fodder' for writing and discussion. Perhaps it is just a matter of hindsight and people having a degree of distance to finally dwell on this album in a significant way. The album's more filmic approach perfectly suits Paul Burgess and Louise Colbourne's more visual medium for their book - maybe covid finally allowed Paul to look through his archives from this era? I also wonder, because Steve played such an important role in the production of TIH, whether his death have prompted people to go back and reflect on TIH, or even, as fans, look at it more fondly...?

When I was doing some academic research on Pulp earlier in the year, what little research there is tends to circulate around TIH and its themes of masculinity and sex. It neglects comparing it with previous albums, though seemingly not for lack of interest on the academics' part. I feel as if I have also seen much more discussion and reinterpretation of the TIH album cover than for any other Pulp album and how it factors into 'the gaze' etc., so I do wonder if its just a matter of TIH being a bit murkier than DC and people realising it is ripe for interpretation.

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andy


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TV movie is genius from start to finish ! This is one of the most Jarvis song ever, maybe closer to his solo outputs though. The structure of this song blows me away, as a guitarist, how Jarvis can make a simple chords sequence sounds so immense and so different throughout the song. This is indie rock perfection. the way the melody plays with the chords and interact with it...

How can you not be touched by A Little Soul and its powerful chorus lyrics, its a statement of guilt from a father which most of us can relate to, its a very deep song. 

I say BAN biggrin ;) 

 

To answer the question, I think it their landmark albums. Landmarks are usually hailed as Landmark long after history has been made. So we're now at that stage. 

Its sad they didn't finish stuff like You are the One and Street Operator. They would have made nice bsides too. 

 



-- Edited by andy on Monday 25th of November 2024 09:43:42 AM

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Pulp Friction


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sabrina wrote:

Following the US tour, it was clear that for a lot of Americans that, for them, TIH is Pulp's 'landmark' album - the whole venue seemed to come alive when they played 'Hardcore' and when they opened the encore with 'Like A Friend'. But I still think that DC is perceived as Pulp's 'big' album, at least in the UK and Aus too.

At the risk of grossly oversimplifying, Different Class is intensely British in its language, social commentary and cultural references. IMO a North American has to be a bit of an Anglophile to really get into it. Even Canadians: culturally we're slightly more British than our neighbours, but we're still pretty far removed. 

This is Hardcore does have British expressions like "losing the plot" or "party frock", and even a thoroughly alien reference to coin-operated heaters. But on the whole it is more universal. It may be dark and introspective, but it's a kind of dark introspection that anyone who speaks English can grasp, whether they relate or not, whether they're familiar with the backstory or not (at first I had no clue about any of it but the album still sank its hooks into me). 



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timahall


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A Little Soul is probably my least favourite Pulp song of all, and I count everything including Silence in that. Easily the most baffling single release of their entire career.

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Eamonn


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Hardly but different strokes, nowt so queer as folk etc.

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timahall


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I don't get it. It's such a nothing song.

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Pip


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And yet it was nominated for the Ivor Novello Award for Best Song Musically and Lyrically in 1999.

(Against B*witched and Cher, no less)

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Eamonn


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It's certainly not nothing lyrically. Jarvis excelling as usual when talking about a subject that would be mawkish or cheesy in the pen of a lesser-gifted writer. The music - sure it's built on a repeated riff recycled from Smokey but it works and the chorus is more than decent imo.

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Scottbloodyfrazer


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Ive never understood the dislike towards A Little Soul. Its experimental with one of the first "loops" used by the band, of which sounds a million times better than "Trees" for example. Its got a catchy guitar riff which sounds out of tune, and its got some decent emotional lyrics backed up by in my opinion some of Jarvis's better lowest notes to sing. Its a cute number.

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SarahAWilson


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I never liked "A Little Soul" much either. Now you know my feelings about Mark but the solo in ALS just sounds like he couldn't even be bothered to tune his guitar. It really jars me.

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weej


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I'm going to stick my neck out on this and say "no" to the question posed by the thread - we have just seen a lot of celebration of This Is Hardcore, the book, the listening party, etc., but next year is the 30th anniversary of Different Class, and the pendulum will surely swing in that direction.

I think one problem with the album for me is that (ignoring a number of things!) it's their most mainstream alternative rock album, and released at a time when there was a turn against weird arty music - and as someone who was (and is) very into weird arty music, much of it felt like it was going along with what the NME/Select wanted when they should be pushing against it. Obviously the title track is the biggest counterexample, but after hearing that, then just buying the CD then sitting down and listening to alt rock song after alt rock song, it just felt like a bit of an anticlimax, and that feeling has never really gone away, as much as I appreciate much of the actual music on there.

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Do you think there was enough in that reservoir of 1997 songs ro turn it more arty and less rawk? ie insert some of the more experimental B-sides and offcuts: The Professional, Ladies Man, My Erection, That Boy's Evil, Laughing Boy add it to Seductive Barry, the title track and the singles. Dump Sylvia, I'm A Man, The Day After, Glory Days and TV Movie with Dishes going to a tie-breaker...

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lipglossed


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Ehh, some of those tracks are pretty weak in my view, 'Ladies' Man' and 'That's Boy's Evil' especially - it's hard to see what they would meaningfully contribute to the album. 'The Professional', though - that should definitely have been on there.

'Dishes' is a real highlight of the record (and my girlfriend's favourite Pulp song, so I'm biased). But also, I wonder if the very standardised Chris Thomas/Pulp productions template harms some songs' chances. I think 'I'm a Man' should have been quicker, rougher, harder, punchier; the single mix of 'Party Hard' is obviously better than the album mix; and as much as 'TV Movie' is the runt of the litter, imagine it with just the opening/ending spacey noises and then Jarv solo on acoustic, a bit like Weezer's 'Butterfly', and I think it's more compelling. Just totally stripped back and bare, in drastic contrast to the title track.

Hardcore tracks seem to take turns being put down, with only 'The Fear' escaping (Russell liked it, we all like it, the band likes it). I don't get vocal dislike of 'A Little Soul' - you could call it hand-clappy or mawkish, but then it gives the album its louche-lounge element and it's deeply important in tying together the album's songs about masculinity - without its discourse on fatherhood, perhaps the album's most central theme would be unresolved. The live versions from the time were also fantastic, with Hawley's solo ripping the song in two while Jarvis perches on the edge of the stage in the Glastonbury 1998 recording.

We often go back to the Hardcore tracklist and while we would all make changes (I mean I would), maybe they're missing the point - This Is Hardcore would still feel empty, because it's meant to.

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andy


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Crazy how this album is dividing the fans. To me it was their most ambitious. They changed musical direction (again, but it was a risk after commercial success) but it wouldnt say its not an arty album or a commercial mainstream album ! Different Class is way more commercial and mainstream.

The most commercial songs were not released at singles, if that's not an arty move then i dont know what it is. No band issued a lead single like This Is Hardcore in like... ever. Then Party Hard. When they could have gone with Glory Days, and Sylva or The Fear.

TIH is a mix of influences and some Pulp thrown into the mix, but after 30 years with the album i certainly dont feel it's a mainstream commercial album. Far from it. the most commercial song is Sylvia, the other branded "commercial" songs have twists and production that prevent them from being traditionnal rock songs.

Its not an english album that's for sure, when DC is very british, or His and Hers which is 200% british. that's probably the reason why some of you dont like it, i guess.

 

Edit: i had never heard the Party Hard single mix. What a mess ! its too fast it feels like its been mixed by someone on coke, and guitar are too low in the mix wtf. 



-- Edited by andy on Thursday 5th of December 2024 08:03:44 AM

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weej


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I chose the phrase "mainstream alternative rock" carefully there but it's probably not clear enough, what I definitely don't mean is "commercial pop" - Different Class had much more of a pop sound, in early 1995 "Britpop" felt like a pop version of arty post-punk music - by late 1995 WTS(MG) had been this huge hit and the wind had changed, and by 1997 the arty/synth-pop elements had moreorless disappeared from the indie bands that were having hits or being championed by the music press, though there were many still pushing in that direction they were constantly slagged off in the press and never seemed to get in the charts. Meanwhile the groups having hits and getting on the covers were heavy on the guitars and generally avoided synths, and were generally distancing themselves from pop music as part of what Edwyn Collins called "The Campaign For Real Rock"

So that's the context. My attitude is that every Pulp LP has its own distinct mode, and this happens to be the one that tallies worst with my personal preferences. I wouldn't mess with the tracklist, yes I love The Professional and even That Boy's Evil, but they don't really belong on there, that's the LP we have.

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