Nick's book is great, his writing style is great, it's full of interesting anecdotes well-told -  I think I prefer it to Freak Out the Squares, though both are obviously grand (and for me, So It Started There has the advantage of being a nice shiny hardback rather than an e-book).

And in all honesty, yes. It's polite and effusive and brimming with praise - about his current bandmates, about Steve and even Russell. Young Nick is clearly in awe of Jarvis, and even now he's grateful to share a band with him. But the book is quite damning; you could argue that despite being less manneredly, knowingly theatrical than Russell's delightful tome, it's more matter-of-factly, bluntly, expository of the tensions and hierarchies within Pulp.

I really don't want to get all gossipy here, but to be quite honest, yeah, there's a reading in there that Jarvis dominated the decision-making, Steve had his ear, and no-one else, really, got a look in. And Russell's no angel in Pulp's history - all that stuff about 'it isn't cool to be in Pulp anymore', and then Nick's quite honest about how frustrating it was with Senior's leisurely Russ-bus touring meaning he was in-and-out all the time (even without flying, he probably could've made a few more of the gigs). But I begin to sympathise with Russell a lot more, which is ironic as Nick's obviously got a load of justified frustrations with him.

But devil's advocate - Russell's point of view - years battling with Fire, trying to pull the group together to rehearse, racking up debt, then suddenly it's over - Jarvis and Candida have moved away - and that's that then. And then suddenly Pulp are back together again, because Jarvis has met Steve. And after the studio sessions? They go and sign to bloody Fire again. So now it's hands-to-the-grindstone, trying to work with Suzanne Catty to tear Pulp away from Fire again, except they end up hating each other and fire her... and then they go and make a record with a fashionable producer who lies to Russell and cuts out his parts (and the others don't argue with him). Russell, Candida and Nick are shut out of the decision-making process. Then Mark joins and Russell's role is diminished further (and poor Mark gets blamed - what was he meant to do? Say no?) But yeah, as for Russell...who wouldn't quit, after all that? Didn't they kind of push him away, really? Should he have just shut up and swallowed it? I don't know. But to be quite honest, I don't think I would have stayed, either. 

I don't really buy into that reading completely, to be honest, even if I've just gone and typed all that up. Russell does seem like a pretty difficult person to work with, and I don't blame the band for simply having had enough by 2012. But also, you sort of wonder if that was engendered earlier in the band's history...

There's certainly some stuff there that doesn't reflect well on certain bandmembers. I feel for Nick, having been overruled all the time and not really seeming to have that much clout in a band he'd been in since 1986.

[BOOK SPOILERS] 

Spoiler

I mean, Jarvis and Steve wanted Russell out, but Nick and Candida didn't (as the latter told Pulp People, she asked him to stay). Nick says he was called up by Steve, spoke to him and Jarvis, disagreed with them but was overruled... and there's no indication that they asked Candida or Mark for their opinion either. In fact, I think it's fair to say that Candida, who hardly appears in the book past a certain point, probably got shafted with a lot of the decision-making - there's lots of times in the book where it seems they didn't even bother to ask her. (FWIW Nick was also proven right about the production on Pink Glove, while we're at it.)

 It doesn't surprise me that things petered out without much warmth in 2002 if not everyone in the band had much of a say. It can't have kept everyone so invested.

-- Edited by lipglossed on Wednesday 27th of September 2023 07:53:56 PM

Jean wrote:

---

Fair play on writing all that up, lipglossed! There was one bit in particular that made me sad. Might be the part Sarah mentioned earlier in thread. Pops into my head every now and again since i read it. Bands are hard. I sometimes regret reading too much about the bands I love. It can't be all sunshine and lollipops I suppose.

---

 Made the separate thread! Interested to know what incident(s) you were both thinking of...

lipglossed wrote:

---

Nick's book is great, his writing style is great, it's full of interesting anecdotes well-told -  I think I prefer it to Freak Out the Squares, though both are obviously grand (and for me, So It Started There has the advantage of being a nice shiny hardback rather than an e-book).

And in all honesty, yes. It's polite and effusive and brimming with praise - about his current bandmates, about Steve and even Russell. Young Nick is clearly in awe of Jarvis, and even now he's grateful to share a band with him. But the book is quite damning; you could argue that despite being less manneredly, knowingly theatrical than Russell's delightful tome, it's more matter-of-factly, bluntly, expository of the tensions and hierarchies within Pulp.

I really don't want to get all gossipy here, but to be quite honest, yeah, there's a reading in there that Jarvis dominated the decision-making, Steve had his ear, and no-one else, really, got a look in. And Russell's no angel in Pulp's history - all that stuff about 'it isn't cool to be in Pulp anymore', and then Nick's quite honest about how frustrating it was with Senior's leisurely Russ-bus touring meaning he was in-and-out all the time (even without flying, he probably could've made a few more of the gigs). But I begin to sympathise with Russell a lot more, which is ironic as Nick's obviously got a load of justified frustrations with him.

But devil's advocate - Russell's point of view - years battling with Fire, trying to pull the group together to rehearse, racking up debt, then suddenly it's over - Jarvis and Candida have moved away - and that's that then. And then suddenly Pulp are back together again, because Jarvis has met Steve. And after the studio sessions? They go and sign to bloody Fire again. So now it's hands-to-the-grindstone, trying to work with Suzanne Catty to tear Pulp away from Fire again, except they end up hating each other and fire her... and then they go and make a record with a fashionable producer who lies to Russell and cuts out his parts (and the others don't argue with him). Russell, Candida and Nick are shut out of the decision-making process. Then Mark joins and Russell's role is diminished further (and poor Mark gets blamed - what was he meant to do? Say no?) But yeah, as for Russell...who wouldn't quit, after all that? Didn't they kind of push him away, really? Should he have just shut up and swallowed it? I don't know. But to be quite honest, I don't think I would have stayed, either. 

I don't really buy into that reading completely, to be honest, even if I've just gone and typed all that up. Russell does seem like a pretty difficult person to work with, and I don't blame the band for simply having had enough by 2012. But also, you sort of wonder if that was engendered earlier in the band's history...

There's certainly some stuff there that doesn't reflect well on certain bandmembers. I feel for Nick, having been overruled all the time and not really seeming to have that much clout in a band he'd been in since 1986.

 

[BOOK SPOILERS] 

Spoiler

 

 It doesn't surprise me that things petered out without much warmth in 2002 if not everyone in the band had much of a say. It can't have kept everyone so invested.

 

---

[Disclaimer: I haven't read Nick's book properly yet.] [Russell's book did come in a lovely hard back version too - just saying!]

The thing to remember with the reunion tour 'meandering' is that Russell says he was only ever going to do 10 gigs based around the 2011 summer festivals. This was agreed with Jarvis - and I would assume, Russell being Russell, there was a contract stating this. Of course Russell is stubborn - he wouldn't/couldn't commit to anything more than what he signed up for. He was having a lovely leisurely summer tour of UK & Europe and that was that.  

I get the impression Nick has not read Russell's book - which is a shame because Russell's book is actually, in general, very lovely. I am biased of course, and I have read it perhaps more than anyone - other than his editor. 

And regarding the Mark stuff Russell wrote - he does turn it around to say that he (Russell) then had a hissy fit and made himself unpopular with the roadies and pointed out that Mark is actually a really lovely person. And in interviews promoting his book he has said that all the Pulp members are decent people. There was no real bad-mouthing of anyone - not even Fire or Suzanne Catty as he chooses to mention them obliquely or not at all.

It was interesting that Nick said no one knew Russell was invited back for the 2011 gigs until they arrived at rehearsals and there he was.

And it was awkward for everyone. 

 

 ALso - Suzanne Catty is now doing aromatheraphy. HERE

Yeah, there is more on the internet - she might have a facebook page and whatnot too. Stumbled on it a while back when doing a little project.

Oh man, I gotta wait before I can respond here.

"Pulp's Nick Banks: "We ain't anything without Jarvis Cocker"

https://inews.co.uk/culture/music/pulp-nick-banks-memoir-jarvis-cocker-reunion-2643540

What a weird night, but in a good way.

So I was in Liverpool early doors as I went to Goodison Park for the stadium tour of my beloved Everton FC. Spent the afternoon around Liverpool chilling out, and got to Ohmeohmy around 6ish.

Quite a swaggy upper market bar, fitting in perfectly with the "posh" Strand area of the dockside. Nick walks in to the venue, talks to a few staff at the start - then "Oreet there Scott"......haha he only bloody recognises me from Twitter. Mind, im a face you wont forget in a hurry.

Without spoiling the book or the tour, I wont say too much on that - however I did manage to ask a question from the audience......

"Firstly Nick, can I just thank you for the acknowledgment to Pulp Wiki in the book - us guys who use it, and Bar Italia are grateful for your comments. Do you think that We Love Life would get the deluxe edition treatment considering there are so many unreleased songs from the aborted sessions etc".

NB - "Im only the drummer, bottom of the pile. Youre correct there are alot of songs recorded - but I cant say whether it would happen or not. Id like it to though"

Or words to that extent.....

As I am about to go queue up for the signing, I only bump into the one and only Stephen Bray from good ol' Bar Italia! A pleasent surprise and a nice conversation had whilst im huffing and puffing to Lime St Station like the big overweight oaf that I am.

My bloody train is cancelled!!!! I had to go to Manchester then to Chorley to get home. FFS.

Worth every moment? Hell yes :)

Rachel - shame you didnt make yourself apparent - never need be shy to fellow Bar Italians :) Hope you enjoyed the night.

Pic of the night (by a stranger who I thank so much)