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Bar Italia Forum -> Bar Italia Forum -> Pulp at Manchester Castlefield Bowl - Tuesday 4th July 2023 (spoilers)
Post Info TOPIC: Pulp at Manchester Castlefield Bowl - Tuesday 4th July 2023 (spoilers)
lipglossed


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It's a real shame there isn't more rotation - it seems like it's a set they stick to, then maybe you get Razzmatazz if there's time? Aaahh it's not logistically possible for us all to make it to Sheffield/Hammersmith! I promise I'll quit my moaning...

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ArrGee


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lipglossed wrote:

It's a real shame there isn't more rotation - it seems like it's a set they stick to, then maybe you get Razzmatazz if there's time? Aaahh it's not logistically possible for us all to make it to Sheffield/Hammersmith! I promise I'll quit my moaning...

 I suspect that 99% plus of attendees only see the show once, so Pulp do the best show they can that is common and well known to the majority. There are no guarantees that they won't do much the same at Sheffield/Hammersmith.  I expect around three quarters of the set will be much the same for these dates albeit with some changes like Brixton in 2011. 

I was just checking Hyde Park 2011 against Finsbury Park 2023 and 13 songs were common to both gigs. Mile End and Bar Italia were the only songs played at Hyde Park and Weeds, Weeds II, Like A Friend and Razzmatazz.  9 of the 14 songs played at Auto in 2002 were also played at Finsbury Park. Plus ça change.



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lipglossed


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ArrGee wrote:
lipglossed wrote:

It's a real shame there isn't more rotation - it seems like it's a set they stick to, then maybe you get Razzmatazz if there's time? Aaahh it's not logistically possible for us all to make it to Sheffield/Hammersmith! I promise I'll quit my moaning...

 I suspect that 99% plus of attendees only see the show once, so Pulp do the best show they can that is common and well known to the majority. There are no guarantees that they won't do much the same at Sheffield/Hammersmith.  I expect around three quarters of the set will be much the same for these dates albeit with some changes like Brixton in 2011. 

I was just checking Hyde Park 2011 against Finsbury Park 2023 and 13 songs were common to both gigs. Mile End and Bar Italia were the only songs played at Hyde Park and Weeds, Weeds II, Like A Friend and Razzmatazz.  9 of the 14 songs played at Auto in 2002 were also played at Finsbury Park. Plus ça change.

 lf you look at the first three songs from each show in 2011, then you see the setlist change from one show to the next. They always opened with DYRTFT, but at Wireless you had Pink Glove and Mile End, at Glasto you had Joyriders and Razzmatazz, at Melt! you had Pink Glove and O.U... even at Reading and Leeds, the first had Joyriders and Misshapes, the second had Pink Glove and Razzmatazz. Øyafestivalen had Acrylic Afternoons and Monday Morning. Malakasa had Help the Aged, Melbourne had Bad Cover Version...

Not to be a downer, a moaner, or to have any similar accusations levelled at me, like entitlement or idiotic expectations, because I want to stress as much as I can that I'm beyond excited to go and see Pulp again, especially with the fact everyone who's been to one of these gigs so far has come out describing it as fundamentally incredible. That's an amazing thing. To see Pulp, on their second reunion with Jarvis pushing 60, receive that kind of plaudits is honestly insane.

You can't blame them for honing the show they have and playing it well, but also... gigs cost a fucking load of cash these days - especially Pulp gigs ! If someone's going to more than one (and some of you are going to several), having a setlist that's maybe just slightly different, maybe with one single song changed, one of the ones that the crowd don't know so well like Weeds/FEELING/Glove/Like a Friend, would be an effective and viable way of varying the setlist juuuuust a little. (They've already dropped Dishes for Mis-Shapes, for example.)



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Eamonn


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Yeah, most of Different Class is always going to be played. Even when they did the marathon 25 song sets in 2012 (i.e Mexico and Sheffield), I think the whole album was performed. Would be great if they did a run of small-venue shows that were "non-hits only" but I'm not sure many artists do that. More work (practice) and smaller venues (less money). The closest you'd get is a live album show but Pulp have stayed away from that recent-ish "innovation" in the live music space. It would be amazing if they did all the non-DC albums like this but pretty unlikely.

I was just wondering, how many of the songs that they're performing at the moment, don't have a particular light and design set-up for these big outdoor shows?
From memory, the ones that do: I Spy, Disco 2000, Pink Glove, Weeds, F.E.E.L.I.N.G.C.A.L.L.E.D.L.O.V.E. Sorted for E's & Wizz, This Is Hardcore, Babies, Sunrise, Common People
Not sure/Can't remember if they have a bespoke set-up: Mis-shapes, Something Changed, Do You Remember the First Time?, Like a Friend, Underwear

So that's at least 10 songs where a lot of time will have been spent on the look, feel, choreography, introductions etc.
And from column B, even if there's nothing visually distinctive, you still have two top ten hits, their breakthrough single that a general audience will react to, a late-era B-side that they have latterly felt deserves inclusion and another DC album track that goes down well.

Viewed in these terms, I guess there's less scope for change, certainly outdoors. Also, they have a hell of a lot more musicians on-stage this time round. The 2011/12 reunion had the core group and Leo Abrahams. This time round we have Emma doing the Leo/Russell parts, Adam as a utility player (extra percussion/acoustic guitar/one-note synth on Common People) and of course the seven(?)-piece string section. As Leo VK mentioned, maybe quality over quantity was always the idea - not to over-burden the additional musicians with learning loads of extra songs that may only be played a few times or less.

But...I'm still hanging onto some hope of variation. Emma, Andrew and Adam have all played His'n'Hers, She's A Lady and My Legendary Girlfriend live with Jarv Is...
And Nick did promise some deep cuts on Twitter before the tour kicked-off.

The back to back nights at Sheffield and London in the same venue probably frees them up to mix things around, maybe that will also apply to the other indoor shows (just Cardiff, is it?). At this stage, probably a safe assumption that Glasgow, Scarbados and Latitude will all have the outdoor set. I mean, it's an amazing spectacle, far more ambitious and striking than anything they did outdoors on the last reunion. And the rave reviews from casual fans will be seen as justification.



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LeoVK


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Echoing Eamonn 100%. To me, this tour feels a little less homely than previous ones - it almost feels a bit more like a supergroup than just Pulp. Its like Pulp and Jarv Is merged along with a small orchestra. And obviously, a lot has changed since the last tour

I think there are lots of factors that are resulting in the more refined setlist this time around, and consideration of the learning curve required for the additional musicians (not to mention making sure they arent just sat clapping along too often) is definitely among those reasons.

Do feel Shes A Lady and His N Hers could get an airing though

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PS. I dont believe a word of what comes out of that teasing little monkey Nick Banks mouth!

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ArrGee


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Eamonn wrote:

... it's an amazing spectacle, far more ambitious and striking than anything they did outdoors on the last reunion. And the rave reviews from casual fans will be seen as justification.

 Agree. And I don't see much changing even at Hammersmith/Sheffield though playing 2 nights at each with I suspect a good number having tickets for both nights there will be some minor changes. I regret not doing both nights at Brixton back in 2011.  But I didn't expect it to be any different to the norm at the time.

Though be warned, Sparks recently played Royal Albert Hall on two consecutive evenings and played exactly the same set both nights as they did on the rest of the tour. 



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ArrGee


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LeoVK wrote:

 - it almost feels a bit more like a supergroup than just Pulp. Its like Pulp and Jarv Is merged along with a small orchestra. 

 Makes me wonder if this could be Pulp IV.  A new Pulp LP would be more commercially viable than Jarv Is, Jarvis Cocker or even Relaxed Muscle. Plenty of unrecorded songs and scope to do something new.  I can see Pulp playing dates next year.  The time seems right.



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Eamonn


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I did have a thought the other day...could the new Jarv Is... songs that they performed last year be turned into Pulp songs and like you say, Pulp enlarged and let's be honest, invigorated, by these musicians? Topped-up with some old unreleased Pulp songs and a couple of brand new ones?

Them not appearing at Glastonbury didn't seem right...maybe they held off for 2024 - it would be 30 years since their first performance and also give them more time to decide how they want to proceed with this reunion and line-up.

#WishfulThinking (but I've got this love inside of me so it can't be helped...)

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Eamonn


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LeoVK wrote:

PS. I dont believe a word of what comes out of that teasing little monkey Nick Banks mouth!

 

Quite right! And technically, I guess he is right (they have consistently played Pink Glove and all the Weeds). 



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liltman


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Yeah Ive lowered my expectations for much changing on these dates. The last reunion was really really special and I dont blame them for just playing the hits at their age and they deserve the money. And to be fair, its been marketed as a series of encores all along.

But yeah, Ive also wondered if Jarvis is considering merging the groups in the future for a new Pulp.

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Barcroft


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Last night was the best of the three gigs I've been to.

Castlefield Bowl is such a cool venue. Walking around historic Roman trenches to get to the toilet, and everyone waving at the passing trains.

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ArrGee


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liltman wrote:

But yeah, Ive also wondered if Jarvis is considering merging the groups in the future for a new Pulp.

When Jarvis released his first solo LP, I vaguely remember it wasnt a Pulp LP due to logistics of getting the whole band together and that it was more straight forward to record with whomever was available at the time (might be a post on this forum to confirm this). Initially, I thought that Jarvis solo would end up being Pulp with a more fluid line up, and I remember seeing him early doors solo at KoKo with Candida, Hawley and Mackey.  

Ultimately, for many Pulp is synonymous with Jarvis. So another evolution of Pulp is viable.

PS this forum transitioned to active board in 2006, but nothing to confirm what I stated above In this thread.  Maybe someone else remembers better than me

https://baritalia.activeboard.com/t8252893/jarvis-announces-first-solo-uk-date/?page=2&sort=oldestFirst



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Barcroft wrote:

Last night was the best of the three gigs I've been to.

Castlefield Bowl is such a cool venue. Walking around historic Roman trenches to get to the toilet, and everyone waving at the passing trains.

 As long as no willys were waved at them. Shane MacGowan tried to get Bono in trouble for that...

https://www.nme.com/news/music/shane-macgowan-would-wave-his-willy-at-passing-trains-from-bonos-house-3327500



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britpop95


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Hi guys. A good friend of mine worked on the security team (a fine job they did to) and managed to send me the set list pulps crew provided them with. Gig was amazing, whole band on top form ! I spoke with Jarvis last year and tried to weedle out any inside info on future projects but he wasn't giving anything away! 



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Eamonn


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Ha, "Confetti Canon" and "Pit Pyro" sound like working titles for songs.

I had a listen back to the new Jarv Is... songs this afternoon on youtube - Slow Jam/Bad Friday from the Nov'21 tour. Even in bootleg form, this has got me in the feels from the first time I heard it. I had Covid that month so couldn't attend the Camden Roundhouse show that I had tickets for but someone thankfully recorded the performance in Bristol that week and I just think it's amazing....the emotion, word-play, swell of the music....I tried to tell Jarvis as much when I met him at the DYRTFT? viewing/book-signing last September (I could only splutter "It's fucking amazing" or similar).

Then you have "Proceed To The Route" and "Locked Down" - both played at festivals last summer, (audio versions from the set at Glastonbury are on Youtube, not sure if the footage is still up online somewhere). The former feeds off a natty little synth and guitar riff, upbeat with plenty of vehicular wordplay. The latter is a groove-built, call and response with harmony, heavy/horny track and they both sound great to me. And I'd be happy for these all to be on a future Pulp record.

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Pip


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Cheers britpop95 for the setlist, have added it to the PulpWiki page. Tried to get one myself but there was a lot of competition and sadly the security guys had an aversion to walking to the right of the stage (as sadly did Jarvis when he stepped down briefly).

Honest opinions...

It didn't quite live up to the heights of Bridlington for me - less anticipation perhaps, also fewer songs - but it was another spirited display from the extended gang and still very special to see Pulp back in Manchester after over two decades. It's a fantastic venue, the screens looked great and the confetti & lasers really added to the occasion.

I'm a little amazed Weeds/Weeds II both remain in the setlist given how lukewarm the reaction has been. The indifference from the crowd last night was quite stark - barely heard anyone singing around me at the very front - and if I've noticed then surely the band have picked up on it. I was expecting the tour to be HnH/DC-heavy, of course, and I've said (many times) before that WLL is my fave album so I'll always welcome the chance to hear anything from it, but I'd probably swap them out for The Trees or Bad Cover Version at this point, I reckon either would get more of a reaction. But perhaps they serve a purpose? A chance for the audience to take a breather before F.E.E.L.I.N.G? Or is it just too late to change the lights/screens? I dunno.

What do people reckon about This Is Hardcore on this tour? Maybe it was just last night but it sounded a bit off to my ears at times. Perhaps I'm just too used to the studio recording, but Mark came in a little late on the piano (they recovered it well after a few bars) at the beginning and towards the end it sounded off-key. Again, maybe just me?

Anyway, I'm not really complaining, still pumped for Scarboro' at the weekend.

This is fun - Pink Glove in 360 degrees from the back:




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britpop95


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No worries Pip glad to contribute! 

I was at the back left area (near the beer cart) got to be honest the crowd around me was really engaged, singing along and everyone to be really on the wave length. 

 

I was surprised to hear weeds II ? I know it helped with the pacing of the show I suppose but thought they could have substituted both tracks for Wickerman maybe? I kinda feel like Different Class dominated the set list (but not surprised) Pink glove was a welcome choice, I was praying for acrylic afternoons ! 

 

All in all though, pulp blew me away, Jarvis seemed on point and the whole band nailed it for me. Was it me or was Jarvis's microphone a little drowned out on certain tracks ? I realise his voice isn't as young as it used to be and some backup may be needed but yeah.

 

All in all great show! 



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That interactive multiple camera-angle video is class! Is it available on other songs?

Also, the venue looks great for outdoors - nice and compact. What's the capacity? And did Jarvis make any quips about the passing trains or the immediate surroundings?

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Pip


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Eamonn wrote:

That interactive multiple camera-angle video is class! Is it available on other songs?

Also, the venue looks great for outdoors - nice and compact. What's the capacity? And did Jarvis make any quips about the passing trains or the immediate surroundings?

Just Pink Glove so far, fingers crossed for more!

Capacity around 8,500 I think. Looked pretty tight at the back judging by that 360 view!

Jarvis got us all to wave at a passing train, hopefully someone caught the moment for posterity. He also mentioned that before the show the band had a look round the new Yayoi Kusama inflatable exhibition at Aviva Studios (formerly Granada Studios).



-- Edited by Pip on Wednesday 5th of July 2023 11:11:00 PM

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Barcroft


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I think the train he got us to wave at was sadly empty, which was only obvious once he started the wave. But the crowd had been waving at them prior to that anyway.

Whilst there were no new songs, it was still an outstanding gig, and I'm sure there are reasons for the similar setlist. The Finsbury, backstage elysian quartet video floating around on Facebook gives some insight in to the levels of organisation going in to the sets at present, so I feel that maybe it's difficult to quickly add in new songs. Perhaps that will evolve over a longer period of time.

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Yeah, that Elysium clip is great. They all look like they can't quite believe they've been asked to perform with Pulp!

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Pip


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Pip wrote:
He also mentioned that before the show the band had a look round the new Yayoi Kusama inflatable exhibition at Aviva Studios (formerly Granada Studios).

 Pics of the "Pulp family outing" here: Facebook

 



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Ian


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Here is my review/narrative of the whole day.

I got the train from Blackpool which was running on time, it was spitting as the train approached Manchester and I managed to catch a glimpse of the venue from the train. It looked a lot smaller than it actually was.

After getting something to eat, I checked into the Britannia with no issues whatsoever. I had booked the cheapest room available which was a single without a window but ended up with a double with a window so that's a plus.

After a quick freshen-up, I walked to the venue and by now it was partly cloudy. There weren't really many people queuing up at this point and as I was waiting for Scott to arrive, I got a drink in the Castlefield Hotel bar. Unfortunately, as with the majority of bars in Manchester nowadays, it was card only. Not badly priced though.

I sat outside so I could have a cigarette and who do I see on the table next to me? Candida Doyle! I had a very quick conversation with her before she headed back into the venue. She seemed very happy and enjoying playing live again. Of course, if I had more time, I might have plucked up the courage to ask her about new material or a "We Love Life" deluxe.

Scott then arrived and we queued up. The doors opened promptly at 5:30pm. We had a wander round and got a couple of drinks (again, these were reasonably priced).

Baxter Dury was reported to start at 7:45pm but he came on at 7:30. I got my hopes up that this would allow Pulp to start early and play a second encore (even if it was just one song).

So what was he like? Surprisingly better than I thought. I had never listened to him until recently when this show was announced and found his material quite reasonable but he certainly comes across a lot better live.

I can't quite remember what time it was but to the delight of the crowd, the string section made their way to the stage followed by the band after a few minutes.

Highlights for me include:

I Spy - this works great as an opening song with the extended intro and strings. The band are clearly full of energy and this certainly comes across when the fast part kicks in.

Something Changed - usually, I could take or leave this as a live song but the strings gave it a new lease of life.

Weeds - it seemed perfect for the occasion, a summery pop song played in summer.

Weeds II - this didn't sound like neither the album version nor the guitar-heavy version from Birmingham in 2001. I can't be 100% sure but I think that it was an abridged version, there seemed to be some lyrics missing. Either way, it was an unexpectedly great performance.

FEELINGCALLEDLOVE - well, this has always been top tier Pulp for me. As always, a great performance.

Do You Remember the First Time? - this works better in the middle of a set than as the opening song.

Sunrise - it has been about 23 years since I first saw this live and it hasn't lost any appeal in that time.

Common People - the grand finale went down a storm, there were a lot of younger people who probably weren't born when this came out but they loved every minute of it. Unfortunately, there was no second encore or anything that hasn't already been played this year.

The visuals were also great. In addition to the projections, streamers were released at the start of "Disco 2000", confetti during "Babies" then pyrotechnics at the end of "Common People". I remember the band saying in an interview years ago that part of a good show is taking your own stage set with you and I certainly agree.

Now it's time for some criticism. I agree with some of the above posts that a bit more variation is needed by either playing a longer set or swapping some of the existing songs. Whilst I accept that it's highly unlikely we will hear anything TOO deep or any new material, songs like "Party Hard", "Live Bed Show" and "The Fear" would be fantastic. Blur's sets at Wembley are reported to last 2 hours 10 minutes which is over half an hour longer than Pulp's. Also, their previous sets have all contained a few different songs. Pulp's best set this year was Bridlington, the amazing performances of "After You" and "Glory Days" gave me a bit of false hope.

After seeing Suede in March, I made a comment that Pulp may come off second best this year. So did they? No, I'd say because of the sterling performances, visuals and string section, they were on par with Suede. A bit more variation would have swung it for me. I try to be fair.

Anyway, after a great night, I got about an hour's sleep if I was lucky, this was due to the obligatory post-gig ear-ringing and noise outside the hotel. Even so, it was worth it.

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Eamonn


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Nice one, Ian! Glad you enjoyed it. And fair play for approaching Candida, it's always such a tricky thing to gauge. Keeping it short, simple and sweet when you just want to ask them questions that have been on your mind for years!

And yes, Weeds II is abridged. Works pretty well, I think. But wouldn't mind the combined Weeds being swapped-out a bit for late-era singles.





-- Edited by Eamonn on Friday 7th of July 2023 01:34:03 PM

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