Hi Eamonn, thanks for your reply.

I understand there are numerous record labels involved, but if they have no plans for the catalogue then they may be interested in licensing the albums for a box release like this. I have been involved in several box sets like this at Snapper Music (The Pretty Things, Small Faces, Steve Hillage, John Mayall, Wishbone Ash), they all have different agreements but if labels are willing it can happen.

Snapper bought the rights for Mansun's catalogue from the sell off at Warner Music to reissue on the Kscope label alongside their support of Paul Draper's solo output.

Well, this could be interesting. If you manage to get the nod from the band and need an archive/trainspotting consultant, hit me up. I know where (some of) the bodies are buried....

Well, yeah...if the level of interest in the recent ebay auction is anything to go by...

Sorry, not ebay. Omega? Omeega, potato, potata...the one you sorted out!

I'd love to see a Pulp at the BBC box with all the radio sessions on CD, and DVD or Blu-ray of their TV appearances.

scottrobinson wrote:

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I'm surprised there hasn't been one yet (maybe there's a reason for that?), if everyone is into the idea then maybe we can make it happen?

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Just on this - I think there are a couple of reasons.

For the early stuff, a combination of VERY icy relations with Fire Records, and also Jarvis' ambivalent feelings toward some of that material. I think both those things have softened to some degree more recently (eg, Jarvis apparently helped with the reissue of the Fire albums a few years ago, and also gave the nod to the 1981 Peel Session being put out) so you may have more luck.

For the later stuff, I think it's mostly down to Universal not being arsed! There was talk of a career retrospective around the time of the band reforming in 2011. Firstly a 2CD best-of, then a box set focusing specifically on Different Class. Both of these, I think, were seriously looked at for a time, but I think plans foundered because there just wasn't the drive from either side to make it happen. Again, maybe a third party like yourself, if you can convince everyone, is just what something like this needs...

Well, if you could get your hands on the Marples '82 tape then that would be ace..

Nick told me that "he heard rumblings of a dc 25 reissue - so either there factually was, or he had read it on here.....

I'd be happy just get a complete BBC radio sessions set with the Hit The North material etc. Those WLL demos and sessions too.

Actually, speaking of Different Class, it's currently being played in full on 6Music! Been inducted into Steve Nice but Lamacq's Album Club.

To give it my twopence worth...

Yes, yes, yes and yes!

hearing properly mastered versions of all those odds and ends from the 80's would be lovely. so much randomness laying about. just the thought of getting a hold of the earlier versions of separations gets me salivating. but 25 discs in one big go seems a bit excessive

If relationships with Fire have 'cooled' that's good news. Universal not being arsed to do anything with what they have is also potentially good news, if they have no plans, they're likely to be open to discussions, as essentially they'd get a pay day on stuff they're sitting on, as well as allowing a deluxe box set to come out which would bring the band back into the limelight. If the band play along too then even better, it could be a pay day for them too, especially post-covid when touring comes back on the agenda. 

Fan interest is key - a petition telling the labels there is demand is great, this is how Paul Draper (Mansun) stayed so relevant in the minds of his fans, he had an album mostly written straight after the demise, and the fans were desperate for it, which inevitably led to Snapper signing him for his solo record, and then tapping to the Mansun catalogue, which has sold very well.

I don't know how many Mansun boxes were sold before it breaking even, but there are good margins to be made on these - without taking the p*ss out of the fans though!

I saw Supergrass's box but I thought it was pretty disappointing tbh, it was mostly repackaging what had been out, novelty picture discs (which sound awful), a thin book, not what I would want as a career defining box. The fact that Pulp are still (as far as I know) on good terms, they could play some shows, do some decent press and give 'a' box a real push everywhere - Mansun may be cult, but they don't have that on their side.

Yes there were a few Mansun conventions, the leader of the convention helped me out a lot on the box stuff, and even edited the concert for us. Knowing those fans are out there and keen was crucial to that box happening. Which is why I'm testing the waters here for Pulp. 

I imagine the minimum number of boxes for an order would be 1000 (although that figure may not be announced in a press release), I wonder if this could get there?

Yes Snapper have a good relationship with Universal, so that would be an easy avenue to gauge interest from, the others would possibly take more persuading, but like I said on the other post just now, if there's a payday for labels who are sitting on catalogue they are doing nothing with - why wouldn't they want it to happen?

 

Without even having to use my brain, I can tell you of so many concerts that are in the public domain which have been broadcast by the likes of BBC, France Inter etc - that could all be tarted up and polished. V96 for example, to hear that in full would be amazing - it does exist.

With your experience of compiling on of these type sets before, you have the upper hand of experience over us all - and if you think the albums should be included, then thats fine. Different Class could have sounded far better production wise, it just sounds so flat - so the remaster that got postponed was actually quite a let down to many on here. 5.1 mixes sounds pretty good.

Video content - possibly my weakest area - I know that there is certainly one song out there that we all want to see the video for, and that is Death Comes To Town. It exists, and a small clip was included on the "Hits" dvd - so as to has it, I dont honestly know. I presume Mark Webber would have it.

Geoff Travis at Rough Trade was the guy to speak to, I dont know if he still is? He is certainly the one responsible for our recent purchases in auctions.

scottrobinson wrote:

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I haven't delved into potential content yet, but all this talk of unheard live stuff is exactly what we like to hear, some of the old Mansun stuff sounds unbelievable after a modern day master and polish. 

Re: studio albums being in there - if it's to be a completist set then I would advise it, it doesn't add a cost to the manufacture and wouldn't be a big sales point, although a 2021/2/3 remaster would interest plenty of people I'd have thought, going on previous sets we've worked on, maybe even 5.1 mixes.

Re: video content - we could certainly collate music videos onto DVDs, or even Blu-Ray alongside high-res audio files, for best quality digital audio. If there's concert footage on tapes we could encode and put out a proper HD concert - DVDs are an inferior output, but they serve a purpose, and most people can play them at least. 

The content side of this could be really exciting as so many of you are bring forth ideas, but like you say, it's now about the band and the labels.
Is there management in place for the band these days? If anyone has a contact please do let me know, I'm happy to drop them a line and see if this is a potential goer.
I'm sure my colleague could get Yes, No, Maybes from the labels, but it would be good to get management and band ok to do this properly.

According to Wiki, in terms of labels, it looks like we've got;
It (Red Rhino, now PIAS)
Freaks (Fire)
Separations (Fire)
His n Hers (Island, Universal)
Different Class (Island, Universal)
This is Hardcore (Island, Universal)
We Love Life (Island, Universal)

 

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Hi Scott (R)

Management is still Rough Trade - I would assume still Jeannette Lee/Geoff Travis.

It is with Fire, not PIAS - it came out on Red Rhino originally but there were various legal anomalies in the 90s which meant it ended up with Fire, in perpetuity I think.

5:1 remixes would be really interesting. For Different Class/Hardcore I suspect they'd want Chris Thomas to be involved though, which could be expensive!

I believe Alan Smyth (producer) still has the multitracks for Separations, or he did. Jarvis *may* have the ones for It. The Freaks ones were lost, although there is apparently an unreleased alternative mix of the whole album.

I think you may be reaching a bit with the reformation thing. They did all that 9/10 years ago and haven't shown any interest in revisiting it since. And tbh they could do it whenever they wanted, so I don't think something like this would really make a difference either way.

Good luck with it all, and if you get the green light, please do drop me a line - I could give you a lot of pointers and would love to be involved.

Mark

JASON wrote:

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Without wanting to be a knobhead Scott..
A couple of corrections concerning those 'it' extras..
I have a pre-release tape of those first sessions, the version of blue girls was partially redone because Jarv had fluffed the lyrics.
This version of please don't worry was part of these sessions but as we know for whatever reason wasn't included on the final release.
And of course sink or swim (taking the plunge) was indeed a demo..

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Knobhead ! ;)  Thats interesting to know about Blue Girls, its my favourite song on It - the school piano is a great touch! 

Scottbloodyfrazer wrote:

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Fire have always been a bit of a strange creature in regards to the release of newer material. However, their most recent reissues appear to have changed their approach a little. "It" appeared with a track that was unreleased before in the form of Sink Or Swim, an alternate mix of Blue Girls, a track from the Spice Demo called "Please Dont Worry" and the My Lighthouse 7"mix.

Freaks got reissued with all the singles and b-sides included too.

Separations was possibly the most annoying reissue - with two b-sides, an extended Countdown mix that was already on its single, and the most glorious and neglected Pulp track ever, Death Comes To Town.

 

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 I thought the last set of releases were good and as much as I ever want pre-Separations.   What else is there from Separations era that is unreleased?

Ha! It wasn't just you mate, everyone saw those non-stop! But I'm talking about maintaining fan interest way before that, when he was not in the limelight and had nothing to sell

I have just gone through the recording sessions to work out what is still unreleased. By "unreleased" I mean that the band have never released it (so it includes those songs on obscure compilations). You're easily talking 10 CDs here:

Ken Patten Demo 07/08/1981
What Do You Say?
Please Don't Worry
Wishful Thinking
Turkey Mambo Momma

Rotherham Demo 18/04/1982
How Could You Leave Me?
Why Live?
Teen Angst
Barefoot in the Park

Spice Demo 22/08/1982
The Heat of the Day

It LP Sessions 27/11/1982 - 10/12/1982
Sink or Swim
Mr. Morality
(both left unmixed)

Bad Maureen Demo Jan-84
I Want You
Coy Mistress
Maureen
Little Girl (With Blue Eyes)

Sudan Gerri Demo 08/05/1984
Don't You Know
Anorexic Beauty
Take You Back
The Will To Power
Simultaneous
Little Girl (with Blue Eyes)
Srpski Jeb
Cousins
Maureen
Blue Glow
Silence

Ping Pong Jerry Demo 11/11/1984
Mark of the Devil
Simultaneous
Maureen
Anorexic Beauty

The Lost John Nicholls Demo' 1984 or 1985
Mark of the Devil
Being Followed Home
and possibly others

Freaks LP Sessions Sep-86
Master of the Universe (alt version)
and possibly others

Fon Sessions 1987
Rattlesnake
Don't You Want Me Anymore?

The Demo 17/07/1989
She's Dead
Down By the River
Love is Blind
Death II
Death III (Countdown)
Separations

Separations LP Sessions Aug - Dec 1989
This House is Condemned (alt version)
Going Back to Find Her (unfinished)

OU Session 28-30 Jan 1992
Live On
Babies
OU (alt version)

Island Demo 07/05/1992
Razzmatazz
Happy Endings
Styloroc (Nites of Suburbia)
Your Sister's Clothes (then known as Glass)

Razzmatazz Session Oct-92
Razzmatazz (at least 1 different version)

Le Roi Des Fourmis Session May-93
Lipgloss

Lipgloss Session Jul-93
She's a Lady
Have You Seen Her Lately?
Lipgloss (Ian Broudie Remix)

His 'n' Hers LP Demos
Joyriders
Do You Remember the First Time?
David's Last Summer
Razz II (unfinished)

His 'n' Hers LP Sessions Oct 1993 - Feb 1994
Live On
Pink Glove (Ed Buller Remix)

Different Class LP Demos 5-12 June 1995
Mis-Shapes
Sorted for E's & Wizz
Something Changed
F.E.E.L.I.N.G.C.A.L.L.E.D.L.O.V.E.
Disco 2000 (then known as Gloria)
Live Bed Show
I Spy

Abortive Album Session Nov-96
Help the Aged
Northern Souls (backing track only)

This is Hardcore LP Demos Jan-Feb 1997
I'm a Man
The Fear
We Are the Boyz
TV Movie
Party Hard
Grown-ups (instrumental)
Seductive Barry (then known as Sex Symbols)

Wessex Demos (1) 23-24 Oct 1999
The Birds in Your Garden
Darren
Bob Lind
Sunrise
Yesterday
The Quiet Revolution
Wickerman
Cuckoo Song
Got To Have Love (instrumental version)

Wessex Demos (2) 13-14 Jan 2000
After You
M'Lady
Grandfather's Nursery
The Performance of a Lifetime
St Just
Got to Have Love (vocal version)

Depot Demos Mar-00
Love You Baby
Six String
Chordy / My Mistake
Playground (probably an instrumental version of Grandfather's Nursery)
Last Song In The World
Medieval Owl
Forever in My Dreams
Candy's Spectre (became Bad Cover Version)
Disco too Disco (probably an instrumental version of After You)
Jungle Rumble (became The Night that Minnie Timperley Died)
Dream Galaxy
(all instrumentals)

Abortive Chris Thomas / Howie B Sessions April-May 2000
Weeds
Sunrise
Bad Cover Version (Chris Thomas)
The Birds in Your Garden
Yesterday
Forever in my Dreams
Bad Cover Version (Howie B)
and possibly others

Hits Session Sep-02
Another song was apparently started but left unfinished.

My Mistake was recorded with vox as we know so the question is whether there was a further, hitherto undocumented recording session with vocals (and if so, which further songs were demo'd?) OR if the information above taken from the Pulp website (and provided by Mark Webber? Or had he stopped giving a fcuk by then? He had by 2002!) is wrong and they/at least some of the songs such as My Mistake, were actually done at the Depot studios with vocals.

Maybe...although having a third working title (after Chordy and My Mistake) is perhaps unlikely ?

I've always thought all 4 Glastonbury performances would make a lovely set

Yeah I really think so, I think there might be better live shows out there but I wouldn't complain if they did a 4 disc set

Just bumping this thread up to see if there has been any movement on this boxset? I realise it's early days though. The possible tracklist of rare unreleased stuff that Ian compiled above looks amazing, and would be an immediate purchase for me!

I agree that to get more sales (and be a proper retrospective) the box would have to include re-releases of everything we already have too. In terms of live content, I'd give up those discs if it meant getting more of the rare stuff. Of course, we'd have to have live tracks for those songs that didn't ever get demo or professional recordings, but for all the rest, maybe there could be a separate live boxset? I like the idea about a Glastonbury boxset too.

Sturdy / Scottbloodyfrazer / others with encyclopedic knowledge - Are you all in touch with Scott Robinson about this away from this board? You guys really need to be involved in the project to help with negotiations and to get everything included that the die-hard fans want!

-- Edited by sbazb on Saturday 17th of April 2021 11:49:57 AM

Just spoke to the lad on facebook - he has tried to reach to Jarvis on Instagram but no luck so he is putting a plan together to labels and management to see if there is any interest . Not much going on here then at the mo. He said he would keep me updated.

Dead in the water me thinks....

I'd be even happier with a Pulpintro Deluxe, but that's even unlikelier

-- Edited by Freek on Sunday 23rd of January 2022 09:40:55 PM

Yes but can you devise a 2CD tracklist for it without using live gigs ?

Eamonn wrote:

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Yes but can you devise a 2CD tracklist for it without using live gigs ?

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 I'd include all the radio sessions that are contemporary with the material. Hit The North (both if possible), Mark Goodier etc. If you wanted a live set the Sheffield Sound City is perfect. Plus who knows what tapes of demos Jarvis has from the period?

pretty much what Sturdy said, although the first two tracks would take up unnecessary (for me) space. Instead Le Roi de Fourmis and the Lipgloss demo from that session would be welcome too

-- Edited by Freek on Thursday 27th of January 2022 01:03:12 AM

-- Edited by Freek on Thursday 27th of January 2022 01:03:29 AM

Yes, recording sessions from May'93 onwards definitely belong in the HnH pile.

I'd also leave in the interview bits with Marc Riley on the Hit The North '93 session. It's so entertaining and bears repeated listening.

The full Black Session officially released would be possibly the best slice of Pulp at their live peak in 92. The rendition of Separations for example is stupendous.

Think our Jason is responsible for a lot of the live boots from that era. Can't remember which had the most interesting setlist.

I also wonder when/how often the band made recordings of live shows for their own reference. The 1999 Venice Biennale one is the first that springs to mind. WLL could easily be a five disc box affair with that, all the demos and Auto, plus the full Brum Halloween 2001 BBC Radio 1 live show.

I was just looking through the gigs i recorded '91-'92 and i suppose the most interesting set list would be the Christmas Leadmill '91 show?
With the inclusion of an early 'O.U' and a rare outing for 'She's dead'..

Presumption based on not replying to my messages etc

I think that the key to getting this off the ground is somehow catching the attention of the band. I remember Paul Draper saying that he was pleasantly surprised by the demand for the unfinished album and despite not being as big as Pulp, nor having an album out in a similar timeframe and not doing a reunion tour, they released a great box-set. Again, Paul knew that there was demand for it.

I understand that Jarvis seems to view Pulp as a thing of the past but I'm sure he wouldn't turn down the extra money (and potentially raising the profile of whatever solo material he is doing at the time) if he knew there was demand. Pulp conventions probably wouldn't be as successful as the Mansun ones but I think if, as fans, we made enough noise, someone would hear us. And even then, they may tell us it's never going to happen. At least that would provide closure.

This forum presumably only represents a small number of fans who would buy a box-set. There are quite a few Facebook groups for Jarvis/Pulp and Nick Banks is on Twitter so should we come up with a plan to start making some noise on social media?

Bumping this one again in the wake of Steve's comment yesterday that Pulp's "entire" 1992-2002 output with Island has been remastered by him and Jarvis. He said that it happened "just over two years ago" but those pictures of them at Abbey Road and indeed the HnH vinyl reissue (the only commercial output from this project to date) came out before then (2019 I think?), so I wonder did they do it over a longer period rather than it being a lockdown endeavour.

Anyway, studio time at Abbey Road doesn't come cheap, so you'd imagine Universal have plans to do something with the remastering sooner rather than later. Selling "product" labelled as a 2019/2020 master will obviously itself look dated the more the years pass.

You could also interpret the comment as both Steve saying "Look, Pulp still mean a lot to me even though I'm not taking part in the shows next year" as well as "Expect new/old Pulp releases in the future".

 

Either way, thanks for throwing us a bone, Steve! He'll be missed next year.

And fair play to him for not being tempted by the touring £££s (well over £100k you'd assume) if his heart isn't in it.

-- Edited by Eamonn on Saturday 29th of October 2022 09:28:41 PM

Well if they remastered the whole catalog, it's not to leave it hanging in a Universal closet right.

Box set could be likely, a bit like the one Divine Comedy did a few years ago, that was packed with unreleased stuff.

There's a market for it, many 90s band are reissuing their back catalog for die hard fans. The price is usually high, so it dont need to sell by wagons.

10.000 copies at 100 is still 1 million  

Maybe it was planned for 2020 or something then postponed because of Covid.

There is hope !

-- Edited by andy on Sunday 30th of October 2022 11:28:40 AM

They're deep enough - see Sturdy's suggested Intro deluxe version earlier in the thread.

Many people will pay good money for Different Class on vinyl with the changeable covers.

Don't know if there are any plans for a box set, but apparently there will be *something* we've not heard emerging next year. Don't ask me what because I have no Idea!

There has to be really, im not being funny but another reunion after a reunion would serve no purpose

Scottbloodyfrazer wrote:

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There has to be really, im not being funny but another reunion after a reunion would serve no purpose

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I agree with this. Whilst I don't think that a new album is completely out of the question, I do think that it would be unlikely.

My money is on full blown reissues of the Island albums with all the demos and rarities. And yes, that includes "We Love Life". Some of the Suede reissues had 60-odd tracks each so I'd certainly settle for something like that.

Eamonn wrote:

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Maybe another "After You" - a late-era song like Cuckoo, remixed and released on its own and played live. Jarvis clearly rates this song as we've seen this year. But if Steve isn't involved, it suggests they haven't done any new writing amd recording so I'd be surprised if it's anything more.

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 He's not involved *in the gigs*. No one's saying he's left the band...

(This is purely an observation on my part by the way, I'm not hinting at any more insider knowledge!)

Had a dream the other night (not about a young fella in dungarees catching his hand in the doors of a Paris metro...) that for RSD 2023, Pulp issued a Double A-Side vinyl single. It featured newly recorded/mixed versions of Live On and Cuckoo.

Jarvis had updated the lyrics of Live On to say "The mirror says I'm fifty NINE years old..."

I need to get some fresh air...