While I doubt this is super unpopular, Jarv Is's setlists in regards to Pulp songs and as a whole were far more interesting than the 2023 reunion sets, at least until "Hymn of the North"'s debut. Nice to see "Glory Days" return, though. I find it so much more rewarding than "Cocaine Socialism", especially with its new context in the reunion.

I far prefer Freaks to Different Class, and prefer Sudan Gerri above both of them (That with "Maureen" as a lead single should have been the album from the era, with "Silence" replaced of course). I feel that "It" should get similar respect that other indie pop records of the time got, considering that most groups had similar levels of cheesiness in a lot of their songs. I also think their more organic, acoustic stuff has a lot of my favorite vocals from Jarvis, it's my main reason for liking both It and We Love Life.

Other than that, I don't really think I have many opinions that out of the norm, I think opinions on this forum are quite diverse, especially when it comes to favorites. I dislike seeing music sites defending Different Class and HnH as their sole opuses, even though I enjoy that they are recognized as great albums.

Ian wrote:

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I totally agree that "Sudan Gerri" works well as an album and "Maureen" would have made a great single.

They could, in fact, have released two albums: "Sudan Gerri" then "Freaks" with "Manon" and "Dogs are Everywhere" in place of "Anorexic Beauty" and "Don't You Know", both of which would have appeared on the previous album.

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 It's a bit like This Is Hardcore - there's lots of good tracks on there that didn't make it onto the album. It should be possible to compile a 'best of mid-80s Pulp' album that's much, much better than Freaks.

Fairground, Mark of the Devil, I Want You, Little Girl*, Maureen, Blue Glow, Don't You Know, 97 Lovers, Dogs Are Everywhere, They Suffocate At Night, Snow.

 

*not my favourite but obligatory

Id love if that was the actual tracklist for Freaks, its much more entertaining and enjoyable and gets rid of some of the boring songs on that album.

Aborigine is one of the best things they recorded in the 80s, it is based on a drone with occasional action, so if that's something you find boring then this tracklisting is probably not for you

I know weej isn't a fan of Dogs Are Everywhere, but I think it's a classic! A dubious one, sure...

The version on the Common People single is so good.

-- Edited by lipglossed on Saturday 5th of August 2023 02:06:59 PM

Eamonn wrote:

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Opinion: Pulp songs are on average too long and it's Jarvis' fault as the habit is also present in his solo career.

The pay-off between anticipation built through (often great) lyrics and the feeling that a song is outstaying its welcome rears its head frequently enough throughout their/his career, for it to be a thing.

They Suffocate At Night, My Legendary Girlfriend, Space, Happy Endings, The Babysitter, I'm A Man, Sylvia, I Love Life, Roadkill, Last Day Of The Miner's Strike....

All of these could do with the edit button and there's probably more, that I've forgotten.

There are plenty of 5+ minute Pulp songs that contain enough musical variety, build-up/release sections but the above (plus the likes of Quantum Theory, Slush, much of Beyond The Pale!) test my patience not to skip the song before the end or put me off playing it in the first place.

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 Listened to the Peel Sessions version of You're a Nightmare... yeah.

It's a real shame but sadly some Pulp songs just hang around a little too long to be truly effective.

Eamonn wrote:

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That is the only official version (for whatever reason, they didn't do it in HnH sessions with Buller, presumably they thought the Peel one was unbeatable. Pity they didn't feel the same about Pink Glove!).
I actually don't mind the long outro of YAN, the anguish built-up in the song deserves its repeated doomed declaration that "You're always hanging round". Kind of like Grandfather's Nursery, the "Here comes the rain" is presented as the pay-off and we're reminded multiple times at the climax. That probably has a little more going on, with that nifty guitar part and the vocal harmonies.

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 I suppose. (I thought it might be something like that what with the Peel Session - reason I said it is that I was listening to the whole thing. Mainly, unsurprisingly, for Pink Glove.)

I don't quite agree with You're a Nightmare - it just feels a bit too simple to justify the repetition. Happy Endings, though, I appreciate being as drawn-out as possible, I think it works well. My Legendary Girlfriend goes on ages, and I love those ages. But agree with you about the rest. It's a real shame that they didn't attack I'm a Man with the verve they approached some of the other tracks on the album with.

 

Eamonn wrote:

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If the I'm A Man demo is stripped down, it would be interesting to hear. One of Mark's more leaden-guitar moments on record, unfortunately.

Happy Endings being bullerized and the vocal histrionics/Cocker yelps in the final part kind of annoy me when the 1992 demo and the brilliant 2002 Auto live versions offer more heart and none of the artifice of the HnH final prototype.

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 Ooh, I just can't agree on Happy Endings! To me it's one of the best Buller works, up there with DYRTFT?, Lipgloss, Your Sister's Clothes, and David's Last Summer. And I have my fair shares of grievances with his production style, so maybe it's just a personal idiosyncrasy.  I don't listen to the song much, because it's simply too emotionally intense, too mawkish, too syrupy, but I don't think those are necessarily negative qualities (and Someone Like the Moon also shares them, and to an extent Your Sister's Clothes). It's one I appreciate more when I sit down with the album and have a dedicated listen, and it moves me, especially Jarvis nigh-on yelling "Your ending, your ending, and all that you deserve". Sometimes, I think about it as a funeral song...

It's funny, though, that This Is Hardcore is accompanied by the airbrushed, photorealistic, uncanny art aesthetic. That's Buller's production to a tee. I know we talk about unbullerised versions of H&H-era songs, but on the flipside, can you imagine if Ed Buller produced versions of Hardcore and WLL songs? It's hard to even conceptualise it, but imagine!

EVEN PARTY HARDS?? I do partly agree with your statement as apart from the Vocoda Mix of Common People, I enjoy all of the pre TIH remixes.

I think that the main frustration was remixes taking the place of proper B-sides. I think I mentioned before that Suede released 14 B-sides on the "Coming Up" singles and Pulp released 4 B-sides on the "Different Class" singles. Also, they released 3 CDs with 7 great B-sides from "His 'n' Hers" then 8 CDs with 4 B-sides from "Different Class".

Also, what was doubly frustrating was "The Trees"/"Sunrise" being backed with two remixes when we know for sure that they had loads of unreleased material available. In fairness, "The Trees" and "Sunrise" remixes aren't too bad. but by no means a suitable replacement for proper B-sides.

It never really bothered me that Pulp didnt have a lot of bsides. Their albums up to DC are very strong, and the bsides were almost as good, so Didnt really need more.

Then TIH has a lot of bsides, its almost a double album. Cant complain.

the only one who is « short » is We Love Life.

We were doing Freaks alternative tracklistings or whatever, but my hot take: 'The Mark of the Devil' is far more in keeping with the first side of Separations than it is their mid-80s output.

The first three Pulp albums, in a way, sort of represent the battle of these idealistic, talented young musicians to escape the dreary malaise of Thatcherism and the environment they find themselves in, they sort of use that environment, reclaim it, and weaponise it to reach success (he wanders round Sheffield in 'Blue Glow', and then in 'My Legendary Girlfriend' he finds the city he's stuck in provides a way out, because he can take his experience and push it out all the way to the right musical places). And Mark of the Devil sort of exemplifies the band that's bursting to break free, the Hyde to Freaks' Jekyll, and Separations is a sort of musical manifestation of that dichotomy. Which is an absolutely bullshit teleology to impose onto a band, but there you go.