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lipglossed


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Eamonn wrote:

Sam, are you going to Sheffield? You need to chat to Sturdy about future Pulp writings, taking on the baton for public consumption smile

 Awh Eamonn you're too kind ! I'm just rambling on honestly, doubt I could write something anything like T&B.

I don't think Sheffield is on sadly... (god, I wish...)

 

Hmm, another little opinion - as much as the violin shouldn't have been cut from 'She's A Lady', Ed Buller's biggest mistake was what he did to the bass, rubbing out Steve's brilliant bassline to a faded outline of itself. It should be so much higher in the mix, and I miss it as much as Russell's violin. (I wonder if it eventually became 'Party Hard', they're a bit similar just with stress in different places.)



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andy


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Pulp without russell senior was way better.

Room 29 ranks amongst the best thing Jarvis has ever done.

Common People is not the best song on DC, Disco 2000 is. 

This is Hardcore is their best album, and probably in the Top 10 album ever recorded.



-- Edited by andy on Friday 9th of June 2023 11:51:48 AM

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Eamonn


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Go Andy!! Controversial but I love the conviction.

Thought you would have went for I Spy or Feeling though...

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lipglossed


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Up here cheering the love for Disco. Laura Brannigan comparisons be damned, I adore that track. Webbo's guitar, the universal relatability of the whole concept (unrequited crush) yet its working-class specificity - she lived in a very small house with woodchip walls - and little pointers of memory (the 'fountain down the road' at Fargate). The chorus hook is absolutely brilliant, some of Jarvis's best lyrics on the album, one of Pulp's best choruses. Simple yet brilliant.

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hugomrtnzz


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For me:
Rattlesnake is an absolute banger
Pencil Skirt is an obvious skip
It album is one of the best Pulp albums ever
Silence is a good song
Down By The River shouldn't be on Separations LP
Someone Like The Moon is like an NPC, Roadkill too
Maureen had to be a single :(




 


-- Edited by hugomrtnzz on Friday 9th of June 2023 02:32:29 PM

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andy


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Eamonn wrote:

Go Andy!! Controversial but I love the conviction.

Thought you would have went for I Spy or Feeling though...

 

Hehe i almost went for Something changed, it's a really emotionnal track. Really love the "philosophical" lyrics. The what ifs, and the consequences of our décisions. 

but yeah, Disco 2000 is what introduced me to Pulp, and the lyrics tells a story i'm familiar with. So it's always #1, This is Hardcore (the song) being #2. 

Another One: Further Complication is an amazing record, Girls Like It too and I Never Said I Was Deep being two of the finest Jarvis compositions. 

I got more, but maybe for another day biggrin



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lipglossed


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Maybe unpopular, but I think (Cunts Are Still) 'Running The World' may be the finest thing Jarvis has ever done, as it is literally evergreen. The year 2000 is no longer fun and futuristic, 'Sorted for Es and Wizz' is rooted in bygone rave culture, and even 'Common People' wasn't really so on-the-money after the band got famous... but Cunts Are Still Very Much Running The World. And you can tell, because they also seem to be running the Labour Party as well.

(Sorry, but the latest green policy commitment being defaced has me shaking with rage.)

 

hugomrtnzz wrote:

Someone Like The Moon is like an NPC, Roadkill too

 Not sure about Roadkill. It's not my favourite Pulp song by any means - I tend to skip it - but it's just so heartbreakingly bereft. Probably the saddest thing they've ever done.



-- Edited by lipglossed on Friday 9th of June 2023 04:05:45 PM

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andy


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I really hate political songs as musicians tend to make a career out of it and usually write those songs for that only reason. but Jarvis didnt.

Running The World is not is finest work and i used to really despise that song. Time went by and now i love it. It stood the test of time. Its simple yet very clever, something only Jarvis could come up with.

His other songs you mention are a testimony of an era, they dont sound dated to me, i never thought as disco 2000 being a futuristic song, more a coming of age song. They belong in history books just like taxman by the Beatles for instance. There's bits that refer directly to the said era, but the general feelings remain. Love not found on one hand, excess on the other.



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lipglossed


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andy wrote:

His other songs you mention are a testimony of an era, they dont sound dated to me, i never thought as disco 2000 being a futuristic song, more a coming of age song. They belong in history books just like taxman by the Beatles for instance. There's bits that refer directly to the said era, but the general feelings remain. Love not found on one hand, excess on the other.

 Oh I agree with you - was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with that bit! Disco 2000 is a very relatable song, very accessible and a coming-of-age song as you say.



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superchob


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andy wrote:

Pulp without russell senior was way better.

Room 29 ranks amongst the best thing Jarvis has ever done.

Common People is not the best song on DC, Disco 2000 is. 

This is Hardcore is their best album, and probably in the Top 10 album ever recorded.



-- Edited by andy on Friday 9th of June 2023 11:51:48 AM

 with you all the way on Room 29



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Nickers


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OK - nothing to do with sound but video. "This is Hardcore" is absolute amazing song with a beautiful video UNTIL that late moment JC stumbles out with the flower fan girls. I love those 50s movies from Douglas Sirk and that video NAILS them with a thoughtful, wonderful Pulp spin. I love the parts the band members play - esp. Nick - seems really getting into character. But once they pull away from the Sirk remake, and get into the Busby Berkeley musical stuff, it starts to feel silly.

One of the many things about Pulp that drew me was that JC, Steve, and myself all went to film school but never ended up the big movie directors we thought we'd be. But we still ended up rock stars - well they did literally and I am in my own mind as I'm a middle school English teacher.

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Ian


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Wickerman wrote:

I consider Modern Life is Rubbish to be the best britpop album. It has got freshness musically and lyrics that I can relate to, more than on Different Class or Definitely Maybe. Also, I love Graham Coxons guitar work.




I'm jumping on the "let's revive old threads" bandwagon and going off-topic at the same time. Please don't ban me.

As much as I like "Modern Life is Rubbish", I think that "Villa Rosie", "Coping" and "Turn it Up" sound like fillers. I would have replaced them with "Peach" which would have sat great after "Miss America" and "Young and Lovely" which would have been the lead single from the album. Oh, and I would have put the extended version of "For Tomorrow" on the album.

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lipglossed


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Nickers wrote:

OK - nothing to do with sound but video. "This is Hardcore" is absolute amazing song with a beautiful video UNTIL that late moment JC stumbles out with the flower fan girls. I love those 50s movies from Douglas Sirk and that video NAILS them with a thoughtful, wonderful Pulp spin. I love the parts the band members play - esp. Nick - seems really getting into character. But once they pull away from the Sirk remake, and get into the Busby Berkeley musical stuff, it starts to feel silly.

Ooh, of course you're entitled to your opinion but I actually want to defend this, because I really like that part - all these dancers and yet he's not really part of their show, he's an afterthought, rather than being the grandstanding film noir star (from the first section) he thought he'd be, he's off to the slide getting bumped into and jostled by the dancers and their flower fans, pushing in his face. He's just getting in the way. It's perfect. He's not Fred Astaire, he's Fred Askew, being twisted around out of the way by the women around him. 

And the closeups of his face, with the red background and blue fans - just wonderfully composed shots. Wow.



-- Edited by lipglossed on Sunday 18th of June 2023 11:37:04 PM

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timahall


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Am I alone in not liking Room whatevernumberitis at all?? Lord it's so damn boring, i've only made it to the end twice and I was really forcing myself through it. I think it's easily the worst LP Jarvis has ever made right back to It. Sorry!

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lipglossed


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I do respect Jarvis for branching out in an interesting way. I mean, Damon Albarn can get a bunch of celebrities in a recording booth, which is exactly why Gorillaz peaked with Demon Days and have been going downhill ever since. Jarvis always does intriguing things even if Room 29 isn't exactly Different Class.

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Ian


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timahall wrote:

Am I alone in not liking Room whatevernumberitis at all?? Lord it's so damn boring, i've only made it to the end twice and I was really forcing myself through it. I think it's easily the worst LP Jarvis has ever made right back to It. Sorry!




I'm the same. Some nice moments but ultimately a rather boring album.

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Eamonn


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It took me five or six listens to click but I think its mostly great especially Tearjerker (love playing this on piano), Belle Boy and Daddy, You're Not Watching Me.

I think Jarvis really stretched himself in a different way knowing that he only had Chilly's piano accompaniment to do any heavy lifting.

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Eamonn


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Ian wrote:
Wickerman wrote:

 

I consider Modern Life is Rubbish to be the best britpop album. It has got freshness musically and lyrics that I can relate to, more than on Different Class or Definitely Maybe. Also, I love Graham Coxons guitar work.


 

I'm jumping on the "let's revive old threads" bandwagon and going off-topic at the same time. Please don't ban me.

As much as I like "Modern Life is Rubbish", I think that "Villa Rosie", "Coping" and "Turn it Up" sound like fillers. I would have replaced them with "Peach" which would have sat great after "Miss America" and "Young and Lovely" which would have been the lead single from the album. Oh, and I would have put the extended version of "For Tomorrow" on the album.

 

Funny how we see things differently. All those "la-la la-la-lahs" on For Tomorrow make me cringe especially on the extended/never-ending Primrose Hill version.

Villa Rosie is an absolute cracker and could have made a fine single. Young And Lovely is lush but the repeated outro goes on for way too long.



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Jean


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This Room 29 business passed me by. You've piqued my interest. If it divides people it must be worth hearing

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Sturdy


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I do like Modern Life but it follows the same pattern as most Blur albums - frontloaded with bangers (most of which happen to be the singles) followed by about 3 hours of half-assed mumbling and mucking about, interspersed with the occasional gem. It blows my mind that This Is Hardcore has this reputation of being 'difficult' when Blur pulled this nonsense REPEATEDLY for over a decade, and somehow sold more records!

That's not really an unpopular Pulp opinion, just me mouthing off, sorry.

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andy


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Sturdy wrote:

I do like Modern Life but it follows the same pattern as most Blur albums - frontloaded with bangers (most of which happen to be the singles) followed by about 3 hours of half-assed mumbling and mucking about, interspersed with the occasional gem. It blows my mind that This Is Hardcore has this reputation of being 'difficult' when Blur pulled this nonsense REPEATEDLY for over a decade, and somehow sold more records!

That's not really an unpopular Pulp opinion, just me mouthing off, sorry.

 

Early Blur records are uneven. Up to Parklife, which is a close to perfect album. Modern Life has just the worst track selection ever. Pick some bside, swap them and the record is pretty amazing too. 

Then The Great Escape which is hated. (but i love it). Trimm it to 10/11 tracks and its a great record. Blur S/T is perfection and has got some amazing bsides.

13 is the "difficult" one, their Hardcore if you will. 

To me their "worst" record is Think Tank. Its a bit depressing and lacks Coxon's madness. 

But i get your point. Blur records are a bit "out there" so if you "only" enjoy the polished singles, you probably wont like the rest.

I like their non sense, its a very british band. Maybe the most british one for a non british listener. 



-- Edited by andy on Tuesday 20th of June 2023 11:08:12 AM

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andy


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Eamonn wrote:

It took me five or six listens to click but I think its mostly great especially Tearjerker (love playing this on piano), Belle Boy and Daddy, You're Not Watching Me.

I think Jarvis really stretched himself in a different way knowing that he only had Chilly's piano accompaniment to do any heavy lifting.

 

I'm amazed people dislike Room 29. Its got some really inventive piano parts and Jarvis's melody fits the mood. Its really an extraordinary record, what they managed to do with just an instrument and sometimes strings.

Clara and Ice Cream are amongst two of my favorite Jarvis songs. the Other Side is also basically an Hardcore outtake thematically. 

Ive seen Room 29 live and it was one of the best gigs i ever been to. 

It has to be taken as a Broadway play or something though. Rather than just a "record". To me it's This is Hardcore "naked" so usually, seems like people wont dont like TIH dont like Room 29 either. 



-- Edited by andy on Tuesday 20th of June 2023 11:13:56 AM

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Nebula


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I think the "It" album is absolutely beautiful and underrated and same for "We Love Life"..with the outtakes included, its pure magic.
And I'd swap out Weeds.



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andy


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Nebula wrote:

I think the "It" album is absolutely beautiful and underrated and same for "We Love Life"..with the outtakes included, its pure magic.
And I'd swap out Weeds.

 

 

Agreed, well they are a bit brothers sonically, which is interesting, because its the first and the last. Was it intended ? 

 

We Love Life could have been a huge album with Got to Have Love, After You, Cuckoo and the quiet revolution 



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lipglossed


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andy wrote:
Sturdy wrote:

I do like Modern Life but it follows the same pattern as most Blur albums - frontloaded with bangers (most of which happen to be the singles) followed by about 3 hours of half-assed mumbling and mucking about, interspersed with the occasional gem. It blows my mind that This Is Hardcore has this reputation of being 'difficult' when Blur pulled this nonsense REPEATEDLY for over a decade, and somehow sold more records!

That's not really an unpopular Pulp opinion, just me mouthing off, sorry.

 

Early Blur records are uneven. Up to Parklife, which is a close to perfect album. Modern Life has just the worst track selection ever. Pick some bside, swap them and the record is pretty amazing too. 

Then The Great Escape which is hated. (but i love it). Trimm it to 10/11 tracks and its a great record. Blur S/T is perfection and has got some amazing bsides.

13 is the "difficult" one, their Hardcore if you will. 

To me their "worst" record is Think Tank. Its a bit depressing and lacks Coxon's madness. 

But i get your point. Blur records are a bit "out there" so if you "only" enjoy the polished singles, you probably wont like the rest.

I like their non sense, its a very british band. Maybe the most british one for a non british listener. 



-- Edited by andy on Tuesday 20th of June 2023 11:08:12 AM

 Parklife has no need of the interludey bits (Debt Collector, Lot 105) nor of Jubilee, Magic America, Far Out, or Bank Holiday.

The Great Escape, similarly, could lose Top Man, It Could Be You, Dan Abnormal and one of Globe Alone/Entertain Me. End on The Universal, have Yuko & Hiro as a little hidden bonus track, get rid of the actual hidden bonus track. It's funny people swap Country House and Stereotypes, because I think the first is alright but Stereotypes is an embarrassment.

Modern Life - about 9 key songs (For Tomorrow, Advert, Colin Zeal, Chemical World, Sunday Sunday which they nicked from Pulp, Star Shaped, Blue Jeans, Oily Water, Intermission), add Young & Lovely, plus Villa Rosie if you want to, that's the album.

I think the Blur/Pulp analogy is a bit different...

Leisure = Separations - two albums of a 'new' band (though the frontman had been in a few) taking cues from a dying scene (baggy/acid),  a mixed bag but with songs upheld as the birth of something (Sing, My Legendary GF)

Popscene = the Gift singles - evolving to find their own real musical style and starting to get press praise

MLIR = H&H - style-setting albums today upheld as indie classics, featuring a clutch of celebrated singles

Parklife = DC - the Big Hit Album

TGE = TIH - The Pop Dream Sours - they go massive, release arty videos (Universal/Hardcore), it's a bit overblown, very emotionally confused and depressed 

Each band then becomes more experimental (WLL/Blur deciding to be Fake Pavemenr)

 

Pulp are better, though. Honestly, Pulp are sometimes lacking in confidence in their material, leading to B-sides getting left off the album... Blur, unsurprisingly, have the opposite problem: overconfidence in their 15 track albums.



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