Are we in danger of turning this into an "Unpopular Blur Opinions (off-topic)" thread?

I am probably in a minority but I think that those short instrumentals that are often scattered throughout their albums add absolutely nothing.

I prefer the version of "Far Out" that appeared on the album. I vaguely remember Damon saying it was "too Pink Floyd" or something to be any longer.

What was the original "Modern Life is Rubbish" tracklist?

lipglossed wrote:

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Eamonn wrote:

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I like Parklife the album, but I don't think it's got the emotional, lyrical or even musical range of Different Class which is just a smarter pop record.

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 Couldn't agree more.

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Agreed too. 

I don't think Little Girl is that good.

[ducks for cover]

Not a fan of Running The World, for similar reasons to not being a fan of Cocaine Socialism. Just too on the nose and horribly crass with it. I mean, I agreed the fuck out of it but don't love it like most others appear to. I thought it was a bit beneath him.

joemc5054 wrote:

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lipglossed wrote:

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I don't think Little Girl is that good.

[ducks for cover]

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 [throws rotten tomato] 

Its a lovely little ditty. I suppose i havent really got any unpopular Pulp opinions apart from that i prefer Hardcore, HnH, Intro and Separations to Different Class.

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 I dont think that is such an unpopular opinion as I tend to agree.  And prefer We Love Life on the whole.  Different Class is a great LP, but I dont listen to it as much as the other five. 

I vaguely remember someone mentioning that they thought the real Pulp ended at Auto and the last reunion was more like an afterthought. I agreed with this. However, this reunion feels like Pulp are really back with us and on top form. Maybe this is because I couldn't attend any of the previous reunion shows due to personal reasons but there's certainly a different vibe this time. I'm sure.

Seductive Barry is a stupid name for a song, they should've called it Love Scenes or Sex Symbols.

Eamonn wrote:

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Yep, it's definitely "clever working title, crap final name".

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 You'd really think that it's one of the things they'd have changed, having had an extra winter to work on the album! One of the quirks of Hardcore you can never quite iron out. It's a bit like having Maxwell's Silver Hammer on there, but if the song were itself really sophisticated and just had a silly name.

Sturdy wrote:

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F.E.E.L.I.N.G.C.A.L.L.E.D.L.O.V.E. is a bit boring, musically underdeveloped with rather trite lyrics that aren't nearly as profound as they wish they were.

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 Wowzers. Cat among the pigeons there.

TBH, it's very lyrically similar to Something Changed - they're both all "wow, I'm in love - this is a surprise! - wasn't expecting this - fancy that, eh?"

I enjoy the drum riff, and I think it was absolutely incredible in Glasgow, the strings turning it into a monstrous Bittersweet Symphony. I don't think the lyrics think they're particularly profound, and I do really like some of them ("I see flashes of the ... and the... "etc, also "I've got that taste in my mouth again") - but songs where you're spelling out words with letters, it's a little bit cheap.

I must confess, I love and admire FEELING yet there's also a slight feeling that it leaves me cold, it worms its way into my brain but it doesn't satisfy me as much as I think it will when I press play. A bit of empty space, a little cold air drifting around the sonic space. Live it's amazing, on the record I think it's the song that suffers most from Chris Thomas's production. I wonder how it'd be if it were Bullerised.

My Legendary Girlfriend holds my interest all the way through, and Happy Endings breaks up the album well, but otherwise... yeah, I'm perhaps inclined to agree with you. Just a bit too long, sadly.

Can I be really controversial and say that I really like Something Changed, it was a lovely change-of-tack after the previous Different Class singles, and it's no less artistically strong a statement than F.E.E.L.I.N.G.C.A.L.L.E.D.L.O.V.E.?

They got a gentle, subtly string-driven love song with outrageously perfect lyrics into the Top 10, and I know that their stock was high at the time, but it's still a bit of a miracle that the song has had the staying power that it has had. In the top five Pulp songs on streaming (beating out Sorted, Mis-Shapes, Hardcore, Underwear), folk play it at their weddings, it might be mawkish or syrupy for some but Pulp have always had ballads to rival the disco-pop and glam-stomp.

Even Russell - its hater-in-chief - said that when they went back to it in 2011, he liked it a lot more than he remembered. Yes, perhaps releasing F.E.E.LI.N.G. or Mile End would've been a bigger statement, but really that's the fault of the album that followed it, its delays and choice of singles. As a kiss-off to Pulp's imperial era, it's pretty good. Something Changed is a very polished pop song, it has the first solo Mark wrote for Pulp on his own, it has an excellent video, it balances out the other singles.

For me, the question mark hangs over Sorted for E's and Wizz. I guess it's a lost moment in time that I wasn't there for - maybe you had to be there, with rave culture and whatnot - but the song is a bit dated, isn't it? I know it kicked up controversy, and there's no such thing as bad promotion, but then it was a harmful media circus for the bandmembers, what with drug setups and stuff like that. Someone over on the swapping out singles thread suggested that Sorted would've done better on its own, but I'm not so sure. Mis-Shapes is the stronger song.

Anyway, the double A-side was probably the best thing Pulp could've done at the time. But if only they hadn't thrown Underwear away - it and Mis-Shapes as a double-A could've been just the ticket for that #1 spot.

'Catcliffe Shakedown' is my favourite song.

Not just from Pulp. Though I think it's their magnum opus, obviously.

There, I said it.

*runs and hides*

While I doubt this is super unpopular, Jarv Is's setlists in regards to Pulp songs and as a whole were far more interesting than the 2023 reunion sets, at least until "Hymn of the North"'s debut. Nice to see "Glory Days" return, though. I find it so much more rewarding than "Cocaine Socialism", especially with its new context in the reunion.

I far prefer Freaks to Different Class, and prefer Sudan Gerri above both of them (That with "Maureen" as a lead single should have been the album from the era, with "Silence" replaced of course). I feel that "It" should get similar respect that other indie pop records of the time got, considering that most groups had similar levels of cheesiness in a lot of their songs. I also think their more organic, acoustic stuff has a lot of my favorite vocals from Jarvis, it's my main reason for liking both It and We Love Life.

Other than that, I don't really think I have many opinions that out of the norm, I think opinions on this forum are quite diverse, especially when it comes to favorites. I dislike seeing music sites defending Different Class and HnH as their sole opuses, even though I enjoy that they are recognized as great albums.

Ian wrote:

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I totally agree that "Sudan Gerri" works well as an album and "Maureen" would have made a great single.

They could, in fact, have released two albums: "Sudan Gerri" then "Freaks" with "Manon" and "Dogs are Everywhere" in place of "Anorexic Beauty" and "Don't You Know", both of which would have appeared on the previous album.

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 It's a bit like This Is Hardcore - there's lots of good tracks on there that didn't make it onto the album. It should be possible to compile a 'best of mid-80s Pulp' album that's much, much better than Freaks.

Fairground, Mark of the Devil, I Want You, Little Girl*, Maureen, Blue Glow, Don't You Know, 97 Lovers, Dogs Are Everywhere, They Suffocate At Night, Snow.

 

*not my favourite but obligatory

Id love if that was the actual tracklist for Freaks, its much more entertaining and enjoyable and gets rid of some of the boring songs on that album.

Aborigine is one of the best things they recorded in the 80s, it is based on a drone with occasional action, so if that's something you find boring then this tracklisting is probably not for you

I know weej isn't a fan of Dogs Are Everywhere, but I think it's a classic! A dubious one, sure...

The version on the Common People single is so good.

-- Edited by lipglossed on Saturday 5th of August 2023 02:06:59 PM

Eamonn wrote:

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Opinion: Pulp songs are on average too long and it's Jarvis' fault as the habit is also present in his solo career.

The pay-off between anticipation built through (often great) lyrics and the feeling that a song is outstaying its welcome rears its head frequently enough throughout their/his career, for it to be a thing.

They Suffocate At Night, My Legendary Girlfriend, Space, Happy Endings, The Babysitter, I'm A Man, Sylvia, I Love Life, Roadkill, Last Day Of The Miner's Strike....

All of these could do with the edit button and there's probably more, that I've forgotten.

There are plenty of 5+ minute Pulp songs that contain enough musical variety, build-up/release sections but the above (plus the likes of Quantum Theory, Slush, much of Beyond The Pale!) test my patience not to skip the song before the end or put me off playing it in the first place.

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 Listened to the Peel Sessions version of You're a Nightmare... yeah.

It's a real shame but sadly some Pulp songs just hang around a little too long to be truly effective.

Eamonn wrote:

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That is the only official version (for whatever reason, they didn't do it in HnH sessions with Buller, presumably they thought the Peel one was unbeatable. Pity they didn't feel the same about Pink Glove!).
I actually don't mind the long outro of YAN, the anguish built-up in the song deserves its repeated doomed declaration that "You're always hanging round". Kind of like Grandfather's Nursery, the "Here comes the rain" is presented as the pay-off and we're reminded multiple times at the climax. That probably has a little more going on, with that nifty guitar part and the vocal harmonies.

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 I suppose. (I thought it might be something like that what with the Peel Session - reason I said it is that I was listening to the whole thing. Mainly, unsurprisingly, for Pink Glove.)

I don't quite agree with You're a Nightmare - it just feels a bit too simple to justify the repetition. Happy Endings, though, I appreciate being as drawn-out as possible, I think it works well. My Legendary Girlfriend goes on ages, and I love those ages. But agree with you about the rest. It's a real shame that they didn't attack I'm a Man with the verve they approached some of the other tracks on the album with.

 

Eamonn wrote:

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If the I'm A Man demo is stripped down, it would be interesting to hear. One of Mark's more leaden-guitar moments on record, unfortunately.

Happy Endings being bullerized and the vocal histrionics/Cocker yelps in the final part kind of annoy me when the 1992 demo and the brilliant 2002 Auto live versions offer more heart and none of the artifice of the HnH final prototype.

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 Ooh, I just can't agree on Happy Endings! To me it's one of the best Buller works, up there with DYRTFT?, Lipgloss, Your Sister's Clothes, and David's Last Summer. And I have my fair shares of grievances with his production style, so maybe it's just a personal idiosyncrasy.  I don't listen to the song much, because it's simply too emotionally intense, too mawkish, too syrupy, but I don't think those are necessarily negative qualities (and Someone Like the Moon also shares them, and to an extent Your Sister's Clothes). It's one I appreciate more when I sit down with the album and have a dedicated listen, and it moves me, especially Jarvis nigh-on yelling "Your ending, your ending, and all that you deserve". Sometimes, I think about it as a funeral song...

It's funny, though, that This Is Hardcore is accompanied by the airbrushed, photorealistic, uncanny art aesthetic. That's Buller's production to a tee. I know we talk about unbullerised versions of H&H-era songs, but on the flipside, can you imagine if Ed Buller produced versions of Hardcore and WLL songs? It's hard to even conceptualise it, but imagine!

EVEN PARTY HARDS?? I do partly agree with your statement as apart from the Vocoda Mix of Common People, I enjoy all of the pre TIH remixes.

I think that the main frustration was remixes taking the place of proper B-sides. I think I mentioned before that Suede released 14 B-sides on the "Coming Up" singles and Pulp released 4 B-sides on the "Different Class" singles. Also, they released 3 CDs with 7 great B-sides from "His 'n' Hers" then 8 CDs with 4 B-sides from "Different Class".

Also, what was doubly frustrating was "The Trees"/"Sunrise" being backed with two remixes when we know for sure that they had loads of unreleased material available. In fairness, "The Trees" and "Sunrise" remixes aren't too bad. but by no means a suitable replacement for proper B-sides.

It never really bothered me that Pulp didnt have a lot of bsides. Their albums up to DC are very strong, and the bsides were almost as good, so Didnt really need more.

Then TIH has a lot of bsides, its almost a double album. Cant complain.

the only one who is « short » is We Love Life.

We were doing Freaks alternative tracklistings or whatever, but my hot take: 'The Mark of the Devil' is far more in keeping with the first side of Separations than it is their mid-80s output.

The first three Pulp albums, in a way, sort of represent the battle of these idealistic, talented young musicians to escape the dreary malaise of Thatcherism and the environment they find themselves in, they sort of use that environment, reclaim it, and weaponise it to reach success (he wanders round Sheffield in 'Blue Glow', and then in 'My Legendary Girlfriend' he finds the city he's stuck in provides a way out, because he can take his experience and push it out all the way to the right musical places). And Mark of the Devil sort of exemplifies the band that's bursting to break free, the Hyde to Freaks' Jekyll, and Separations is a sort of musical manifestation of that dichotomy. Which is an absolutely bullshit teleology to impose onto a band, but there you go.

lipglossed wrote:

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The first three Pulp albums, in a way, sort of represent the battle of these idealistic, talented young musicians to escape the dreary malaise of Thatcherism and the environment they find themselves in, they sort of use that environment, reclaim it, and weaponise it to reach success (he wanders round Sheffield in 'Blue Glow', and then in 'My Legendary Girlfriend' he finds the city he's stuck in provides a way out, because he can take his experience and push it out all the way to the right musical places). And Mark of the Devil sort of exemplifies the band that's bursting to break free, the Hyde to Freaks' Jekyll, and Separations is a sort of musical manifestation of that dichotomy. Which is an absolutely bullshit teleology to impose onto a band, but there you go.

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Not bullshit at all! I think there's a lot of truth in that. Owen Hatherley makes some very similar points in Uncommon (about the band in the 80s I man, not Mark of the Devil specifically).

OK, more unpopular opinions.

'Bad Cover Version' is the weakest track on We Love Life. Sorry, I know we all love the "list of rehashed crap", but to me the song sounds so dated. I appreciate the video, but as for the song, it's one of two Pulp tentpole singles - the other being 'Sorted' - that I feel hasn't aged particularly well. The lyrics are smart but I wish they'd done more with the melody. It would've been a good Xmas single, but that might be one of its biggest shortcomings, because it wasn't one. I could take it or leave it, personally.

'David's Last Summer' is one of the single-greatest Pulp tracks. It's their best album-ender, and it is sorely underappreciated and overlooked. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that it's their best spoken-word track, ranking above the likes of 'Sheffield: Sex City' and 'Wickerman'. They all have wonderful, evocative lyrics, but I love how much DLS feels like a story.

'Dishes' is really, really good. The guitar solo is probably the loveliest instrumental solo in Pulp's history, absolutely adore it.

lipglossed wrote:

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'David's Last Summer' is one of the single-greatest Pulp tracks. It's their best album-ender, and it is sorely underappreciated and overlooked. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that it's their best spoken-word track, ranking above the likes of 'Sheffield: Sex City' and 'Wickerman'. They all have wonderful, evocative lyrics, but I love how much DLS feels like a story.

'Dishes' is really, really good. The guitar solo is probably the loveliest instrumental solo in Pulp's history, absolutely adore it.

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 Cant be that unpopular as I agree.

hairstyleofthedevil wrote:

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lipglossed wrote:

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'Bad Cover Version' is the weakest track on We Love Life

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 ouch! I'd thumb down the title track, not sure how unpopular an opinion that is....

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 It's probably in the bottom three on the album for me, but "Here comes your bedtime story: Mum and Dad have sentenced you to life" is a very good lyric, so that wins it back some bounty points IMO.

Eamonn wrote:

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hairstyleofthedevil wrote:

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lipglossed wrote:

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'Bad Cover Version' is the weakest track on We Love Life

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 ouch! I'd thumb down the title track, not sure how unpopular an opinion that is....

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I agree. BCV rules. Say it ain't so, Sam 

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 It's the one song that just hasn't clicked for me. Just doesn't do anything for me at all. Maybe I'm the problem.

Whilst I still like "Wickerman", I don't think that it has aged as well as any of its counterparts (This is Hardcore, I Spy, Sheffield: Sex City, Deep Fried in Kelvin etc). There was a time where I considered this track alone to be worth the asking price of the album but now I think that it just works well as an album track.

I would keep "Someone Like the Moon" but swap out "Happy Endings". The "round and round and round" bit annoys me plus the substandard vocals and lack of a second verse means it falls a long way short of the Walker ballad it was supposed to be. Not sure what I'd put in its place, "Street Lites" and "Seconds" would have been good album tracks.