Eamonn wrote:

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Did you have a good night then?

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I did... it was about 2 weeks into my first term at university and I put a cheeky request on the Lipgloss mailing list for anyone who had a spare ticket and a floor in London I could sleep on. A nice young lad called Jamil got in touch, I got the train down from Coventry, met him off the tube and we headed straight to the venue. We'd missed the first bit but there was a load of really interesting stuff, a pretty extraordinary line-up really - Nick Cave doing a piano set with Warren Ellis on violin, Tony Wilson compering, Spiritualized playing with the English Chamber Orchestra, footage of La Monte himself, a bizarre recorded message from Yoko Ono ("now we know how the rest of the Beatles felt", as Wilson quipped immediately afterwards) and of course Pulp.

We were right at the back but there was still a decent view - they were all bunched together in a corner at the front of the stage, most of the space being taken up by the ECO. I knew it was going to be something different from Different Class (they'd dropped enough hints by this point) , but it was still a little surprising - Seductive Barry started with this long sustained drone from the orchestra that seemed to go on forever, can't remember whether Jarvis was onstage from the start or made a delayed appearance as the drone gradually transmogrified into the song we all know. Can't remember whether it was before or after the press coverage for Help the Aged, but it must've been one of the first sightings of Jarvis' 1997 look - those big glasses, the longer hair, brown clothes etc. Just a completely different sort of presence to before - no big showbiz lighting or stage set like you'd have expected from the Arena tour. I think he must have been singing behind a mic stand to start with too because I seem to remember him slowly destroying it at some point during the performance. There wasn't much dancing or gesticulating (although as things went on it seemed to get to the point where he couldn't help himself), and not much chat until the start of Help the Aged - something along the lines of "It's my dad's birthday today so this is for him, not that he deserves it".

I came away with high hopes for the album - the two new songs seemed like a decisive turn away from the obvious, poppy aspects of Different Class into more mysterious, murky, menacing territory, almost like they'd rediscovered the soul-searching experimentalism of Freaks. Hardcore, when it finally came out (was it really only six months later?) wasn't quite the album I'd been anticipating...

Sturdy wrote:

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Ha, not an entirely serious reply if I'm honest. But really, I don't think taking certain songs off Hardcore or putting other ones on would have made a lot of difference really. OK Dirty World's good, but most of the other "lost classics" have the same problems as the songs on the album - some great moments but no a tendency to seem quite unfocused and confused, songs that are almost great but seem to resort to lazy cliches just so they can be described as finished, often relatively uninspired lyrics, expensive but uninteresting arrangements and production... two of my least favourite songs on that album (Dishes and Sylvia) have my favourite bits in them (solo and verses, respectively). Talk about a curate's egg!

There are no big differences between the Barbican live versions of Barry and Hardcore and the album versions. I guess the album was largely done at that point. They're good though!

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Thanks for the insights Sturdy. I was curious whether Seductive Barry was fully-fleshed out (ahem) at that point. For some reason I thought it was one of the last songs on the album to get finished. Could swear I read Jarvis saying somewhere that he struggled with the track for ages, until they brought Neneh Cherry into the studio at some late hour.

As for the album, speaking as a former Hardcore anorak, I don't think it has aged very well. I can't remember the last time I put it on, and when I do I tend to skip around. 

My taste is not to be trusted though. I think Dirty World is awful, and I think Modern Marriage, My Erection and Ladies' Man are the best tracks from the epoch. And I'm not just trying to be contrary.

Modern Marriage?

I think the album was in the can by the time Help The Aged came out in late '97 and (allowing for the standard three months or so of PR and manufacturing/distribution of the album) was held back for the "indie album release window of opportunity" - spring and autumn apparently (We Love Life suffered a similar but longer gestation and delay).

As for the music, agreed that there is a certain something missing from some of the songs (The Day After The Revolution, Glory Days...a lot of side two in fact). High production levels work to the detriment of I'm A Man (terribly stodgy...would love to hear how the demo sounds) and Sylvia (Pulp and bombast sit a little uneasily together). As for the lyrics, yeah, maybe there is a presence of clichés hitherto not in Pulp's lexicon. In Jarvis' defence, I guess when you're known for your wit, a period of being feted by all and sundry followed by a long comedown must surely influence how you write. Possibly expressed in a more insular and honest/plain manner (Dishes/TV Movie). Only fair to mention how his mind was still sharp enough to write the words for likes of The Professional and Cocaine Socialism.

Personally, I find it the hardest album to refine as it has undeniable weak spots but still works quite well as it is - a knowingly flawed document of a pop band in a transition to wanting to be taken more serious. But there's just too many holes in it, particularly the second half and I subscribe more to the idea of ''Pick the best songs'' rather than ''Pick the songs which best reflect what you want to say about the album". All the better if you can manage both obviously.

But if Side A was something like:

The Fear

It's A Dirty World

Party Hard

Help The Aged

This Is Hardcore

A Little Soul

...you've got one hell of a stong list of songs with themes to send the Smash Hits readers running to embrace, er, Embrace. 

From cocaine psychosis to dancer-directed lust with a helping of self-loathing and a dogged desire to continue the decadence in the first three tracks. In particular I like the fact that there's no let-up from the captivating opener. Instead of the downbeat Dishes complete with lyrics likely to irk many ("Oh, isn't he great comparing himself to Jesus again at the end as if we didn't realise how clever it was at the start?"), we get two more songs that are bold and loud and  exciting and a clear stamp of Pulp #4(5?). 

Swiftly followed by three reflective songs, pondering on the worries and nature of ageing, porn as fame as hollowness and finally the crutch of bad fathering. What more could you possibly want?

Side B is far trickier to reconcile though. I love TV Movie but recognise it as being the most dispensable song on the album. Hatherley makes a case for We Are The Boyz' more obvious hook and brazenness being a better bet than the not thematically dissimilar I'm A Man. Dumber, funn(i)er lyrics than I'm A Man certainly but the latter does get its point over in a more typically clever Jarvis/Pulp style. I think most were agreed that Like A Friend's presence in the reunion sets was a success and it's long been widely held-up as a song worthy of inclusion on the album. Which it always has been for Americans of course.

My Erection, as Fuss Free says, is a great track that would have possibly sounded both the freshest and least-sounding Pulp song on the record. It or Ladies Man, with the detached vocoder sound and experimental nature offers a further change in style making the album even more impressive from a muso point of view. Following This Is Hardcore and The Professional, it gives one answer to the"What exactly do you do for an encore?" and "I'm only trying to give you what you've come to expect" dilemmas. As a bold statement and razor-sharp view of what Pulp thought of their public perception, there can only be one way to start Side B though:

The Professional

Ladies Man/My Erection (but re-titled as ''(Here In) My Lap''. Still want Woolworths to stock it after all)

.........

..........

.........

.........

.........

 and then I don't know.

Seductive Barry is more admirable than enjoyable but as one of the more adventurous tracks recorded during the era and the not irrelevant lyrical theme of facing up to the object of your desires, (certainly a line can be drawn between it, the title track and Dirty World) it does merit its inclusion.

I am fond of Sylvia, even if Chris Thomas and Mark Webber are having far too much fun on it while We Are The Boyz or I'm A Man deserve at most one slot between them. 

Dishes could be shunted down towards the end - an admission that the speaker has learned the futility of the drugs/sex/partying pandering of the first part of the album. Like A Friend provides a fine penultimate jolt. And to round it off, and so as not to maintain the oft-criticised unconvincing, faux happy ending of the original, we cull either The Day After The Revolution or Glory Days/Cocaine Socialism. 

Personally, I think Cocaine Socialism should have been a stand-alone single on the week of the 1997 General Election. I know Jarvis said he didn't have the stomach/balls ("Give them back to me, please") to release it at the time but if technology had been advanced to what we have now where established bands "drop" their new lead-track as a give-away mp3 amidst little bluster, it may well have come to pass that Cocaine Socialism would have totes pwned Things Can Only Get Better and made Noely Gallagher look sheepishly into his glass of champers at number ten.

Jarvis did upload Cunts Are Running The World onto Myspace without warning after all (albeit a year after the even that inspired/angered him to write it. Still, Jarvis and timing, the twain don't always meet).

So, more questions than answers really. As it was upon its release fifteen years ago. Whatever way you shuffle, re-order it and bring in the overlooked star players on the bench there is still no sign of a hit single there! Which Island were presumably sweating on and praying for after the costs of recording the album and filming the promos, particularly the one for This Is Hardcore.

I've never been quite convinced by the "There were loads of songs that could have been put on to make it Different Class II and more poppy" line either. Certainly not those I've mentioned above. Maybe We Are The Boyz though it is throwaway in nature and likely would have been more popular with the townies than the mis-shapes. Street Operator, You Are The One, Modern Marriage? Catchier but light-weight, and under-cooked in their demo form. There's certainly no Live On/We Can Dance Again/After You "OMG, that would have been huge!" song in there. What there are, though, in my unwieldy opinion, are a clutch of great songs which would have made a fractured, flawed album that bit more brave and brilliant. 

I think the first half of Glory Days is brilliant. It peters out in the second half. I don't get the love for Cocaine Socialism.

Day After the Revolution is another good track, but I feel like its been widely forgotten due to the 15 minute drone making it an unfriendly to mp3 players.

Surly, the hypothetical "Different Class II" would have been culled from unreleased His n Hers and Different Class demos like Frightened, You're not Blind, We Can Dance Again, Paula, Catcliffe Shakedown and Don't Lose It plus a few new songs. It could have been a good album, actually.

Fuss Free wrote:

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[would've included] Paula.... ....could have been a good album, actually.

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 DOES NOT COMPUTE

saw119 wrote:

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Nice stuff Eamonn and Sturdy, this has been a very interesting thread to read. I don't have much to add but to me TiH is very much half an album at best and to make matters worse it is front stacked. I have rarely ever listened to side 2, even piecemeal. Also, despite how much I love tracks like The Professional and Ladies Man I don't really think that they could fit into the album structure. This period is marked by a lot of standalone songs rather than a cohesive set of songs designed for an album in my opinion.

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 I really agree with this even though this opinion use to annoy the hell out of me because This is Hardcore used to be my favorite Pulp album. But it's like the more you listen to it, the second half just sort of devalues I guess. Or I've just realized it wasn't really that good to begin with. Once I get to Seductive Barry I'm fine with turning it off anymore. Which is too bad because I do think a lot of the demos from the extended addition could have been good stand ins for the actually tracks they chose. I actually think a little too often how poor the track choices for the second half of that album are.

Sturdy wrote:

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calumlynn wrote:

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Sturdy, I've got the equipment to easily transfer a minicassette into a digital format if you were interested? I mean, for 7 minutes it might not be worth it. But I'd certainly be interested in hearing it.

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 Ah, now you've called my bluff! Give me chance to find it (think it's in the garage) and I'll drop you a line...

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haha, let me know if you do find it!

triciathetree wrote:

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i honestly can't believe how many people hate dishes! it's always been one of my favorites...

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most of the music is great, it's the middle 8 and the lyrics which are just awful and ruin the song for me!

Eamonn wrote:

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The middle 8 is the best part! Lyrics in that section are somewhat trite, especially for Jarvis but he rarely is so I'd throw him a bone on that one.

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 hahaha it's SO cheesy! And not in a good, 'Happy Endings' way. The guitar solo, however, is brilliant.

triciathetree wrote:

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i honestly can't believe how many people hate dishes! it's always been one of my favorites...

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Same here, I think it's a fantastic song, just misplaced in the album. After The Fear, you need something to keep up the momentum. But I'm just sort of echoing other people's opinions now.

I have to say, I listen to TiH an awful lot, and although there are holes, and I have to be in a certain mood for it, I do think it's a hell of an album. At times it seems a little misguided, but I can forgive them that because of tracks like This is Hardcore, A Little Soul, Help The Aged... Also I suppose the misguided feel of the album and the attempt to give it a turn-around ending fit with the overall feel of the album, a mix of thought processes from a person who's disillusioned - in a bad place and struggling to drag themselves out of their mind set and their situation. Being a miserable, hormonal adolescent prone to periods of self-consciousness and self-pity, it's an album I seem to rely on sometimes. That tacked-on ending doesn't seem so bad if I'm in that kind of mood. When I'm older (and wiser?) the flaws might become more apparent to me, and I'll be vaguely embarrassed to have dribbled praise over this thread. Y'never know.

Beetlebum wrote:

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triciathetree wrote:

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i honestly can't believe how many people hate dishes! it's always been one of my favorites...

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Same here, I think it's a fantastic song, just misplaced in the album. After The Fear, you need something to keep up the momentum. But I'm just sort of echoing other people's opinions now.

I have to say, I listen to TiH an awful lot, and although there are holes, and I have to be in a certain mood for it, I do think it's a hell of an album. At times it seems a little misguided, but I can forgive them that because of tracks like This is Hardcore, A Little Soul, Help The Aged... Also I suppose the misguided feel of the album and the attempt to give it a turn-around ending fit with the overall feel of the album, a mix of thought processes from a person who's disillusioned - in a bad place and struggling to drag themselves out of their mind set and their situation. Being a miserable, hormonal adolescent prone to periods of self-consciousness and self-pity, it's an album I seem to rely on sometimes. That tacked-on ending doesn't seem so bad if I'm in that kind of mood. When I'm older (and wiser?) the flaws might become more apparent to me, and I'll be vaguely embarrassed to have dribbled praise over this thread. Y'never know.

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After more thought, here's my alternative tracklisting:

1. The Fear
2. The Professional
3. Party Hard
4. Ladies Man
5. TIH (End Of The Line Mix) / This Is Hardcore
6. I'm A Man
7. Like A Friend
8. Sylvia
9. Tomorrow Never Lies
10. The Day After The Revolution

Dishes, TV Movie, Glory Days, A Little Soul and Seductive Barry would have made better B-sides. Help The Aged is out of place and should have been single only. 

-- Edited by shotoki on Monday 5th of August 2013 10:43:18 AM

I think it's down to song choices rather than song writing myself. Then again, I'm no Russgirl.

Eamonn wrote:

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Possibly so. But, as much as I love him, instead of complaining about the likes of Something Changed and Help The Aged not being fit to follow Common People, I wonder was he offering (m)any alternative ideas of his own?

My opinion is that Pulp's material in 1997 was just as strong and arguably more varied than other periods. They just weren't able to make a cohesive document in album form. With the more sombre and serious mood at the time and Mark's growing role - and his higher level of musicianship than Russell, they also became more professional sounding which I know is anathema or at the very least somewhat on the boring side to a lot of fans, primarily those who love the unique stylings of Intro and HnH the most.
But the best bands do change and grow so despite the misfires on TIH, and indeed We Love Life, I think the band should still be rightly proud of both albums.

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 And while I'm at it, I would just like to agree with everything Eamonn says here.

I definitely agree with you.

Me too!

That's the Pulp balance though isn't it? :)