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Ian


Master Of The Universe

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I have been thinking the same. Effectively everything in the setlist (that wasn't already a single) could have been. There's only really "I Spy" (but let's face it, Pulp could have released whatever they wanted in 1995-6 and it would have sold) and "Weeds II" that don't really fit.

"FEELINGCALLEDLOVE" was considered as the final single from "Different Class" according to a Pulp newsletter which said something along the lines of "The band are still deciding whether FEELINGCALLEDLOVE or Something Changed will be the next single".

As far as I remember, "Glory Days" was never considered for single release but "Cocaine Socialism" (then known as "Northern Souls") definitely was. Perhaps the band would struggle to play the latter what with all the horns and stuff.

"Like a Friend" was definitely released in the US, I have a copy of the promo. It contains the b-side version and an edit: www.youtube.com/watch

"The Fear" was also released in the US. The CD contains an edit which is the same as the album version but fades out about a minute earlier and a 10 second sample of the chorus which is subtitled "Research Hook". I don't think these are on YouTube but I will try to dig them out. It would be nice if we could hear it played live this year.

Not sure about "Weeds", if it was their second choice for single from "We Love Life" then it would have replaced "Bad Cover Version". That said, there is a promo which contains the "full" track without segueing into "Weeds II".

-- Edited by Ian on Thursday 13th of July 2023 08:48:08 PM

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lipglossed


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Ian wrote:

Not sure about "Weeds", if it was their second choice for single from "We Love Life" then it would have replaced "Bad Cover Version". That said, there is a promo which contains the "full" track without segueing into "Weeds II".

-- Edited by Ian on Thursday 13th of July 2023 08:48:08 PM

 I think the plan would've been Sunrise, Weeds, Bad Cover Version.



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weej


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I remember there being a lot of "Birds In Your Garden" merch available during the WLL tour, which suggests it was supposed to be a single.

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SarahAWilson


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weej wrote:

I remember there being a lot of "Birds In Your Garden" merch available during the WLL tour, which suggests it was supposed to be a single.

 Didn't Pulp People do a poll for fans to vote for the new single, but it got vetoed by Island or something.



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lipglossed


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SarahAWilson wrote:
weej wrote:

I remember there being a lot of "Birds In Your Garden" merch available during the WLL tour, which suggests it was supposed to be a single.

 Didn't Pulp People do a poll for fans to vote for the new single, but it got vetoed by Island or something.

 Pulp People chose Birds and then Bad Cover Version. I think the poll wasn't connected to Pulp themselves though.



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Pip


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Judging by its appearances on Later With Jools Holland and Friday Night with Jonathan Ross (acoustic with Candida), Birds was certainly favoured.

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lipglossed


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Another case of "this is the oldest song, let's get it out" then?

Bad Cover Version I think I'm right in saying was picked because it has more 'pop' appeal. It was a last throw of the dice.

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Ian


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Back to the original discussion but I'm totally disregarding the rules. I would have released the following singles:

Now that we've heard some of the early 1980s tracks:
Please Don't Worry
Barefoot in the Park

From It:
My Lighthouse
In Many Ways (b/w There Was)

Then:
Maureen (b/w Take You Back)
Little Girl (With Blue Eyes)
Dogs are Everywhere

Freaks:
They Suffocate at Night

I would have skipped Master of the Universe if...

Death Comes to Town was released in 1987 b/w Rattlesnake

Separations:
My Legendary Girlfriend (b/w Going Back to Find Her)
Countdown
And if they had managed to get the album out earlier, "Death II" as the third single.

I wouldn't change anything from "OU" to "Mis-Shapes"/"Sorted for E's and Wizz" (though I would have added in a couple of extra b-sides to the "Different Class" singles).

However, I would have released "Something Changed" in late 1995 and "Disco 2000" with plenty of promotion as soon as possible after the Brit Awards in 1996. Selling out? Maybe.

This is Hardcore
It's a Dirty World (b/w Tomorrow Never Lies and Laughing Boy)
This is Hardcore and Glory Days as a double A-side (b/w TV Movie and Ladies Man plus the remixes, The Professional would have been on the album)
NB. The chart rules changed in mid-1998 to a maximum of 3 tracks per format.
Sylvia (CD1 b/w A Little Soul and Cocaine Socialism, CD2 b/w Like a Friend and That Boy's Evil - no crappy remixes this time)
Party Hard (b/w We Are The Boyz and Modern Marriage plus the remixes)

We Love Life
Sunrise - straight after the 2000 shows, they could have recorded it like "Sorted" where they mixed a live version with studio recordings (of which they had a couple by this time) and backed it with live songs and remixes and used a live video. Everyone was talking about "Sunrise" at this time so it would have made sense to release it. The final album version would have been different.
After You in mid-2001
Weeds after the album
Birds in Your Garden

-- Edited by Ian on Friday 14th of July 2023 08:46:17 PM

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lipglossed


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On the matter of We Love Life...

Pulp themselves might still resent Island a little bit for insisting on The Trees, because the official Pulp account (@welovepulp) actually liked my rather silly meme!

twitter.com/Pulpitude/status/1677316675878764544/photo/1

The Trees isn't the *least* commercial song on the album, I'm exaggerating a little, but my god, it's NOT a comeback single by any shakes. Although Pulp had already committed commercial suicide three years before, so from Island's point of view, perhaps it's understandable (?)



-- Edited by lipglossed on Monday 17th of July 2023 03:36:49 PM

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Eamonn


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I love Pulp's last two albums/eras (and should the remaining 1999/2000 songs ever see the light of day, I might even love WLL the most) but I have some sympathy for Island/Universal from a commercial/singles perspective. You'd be hard-pressed to find a hit from the, what, 50(?) or so songs demo'd or fully recorded by Pulp between 1997 and 2001.

Help The Aged was really a hang-over from the "classic" line-up, brewed in 1996 soundchecks presumably but soon rejected by Lieutenant Senior. That at least had an explosive chorus but if you take the hookier moments of the post-DC years, I just don't see how the likes of Northern Souls/Cocaine Socialism, We Are The Boyz, Party Hard, After You, Trees, Weeds, Birds In Your Garden would/could have ever made much of a dent in the charts. There's just something too gauche about them or, the opposite - subtle, and the WLL material probably a bit too grown-up for teens (the main single-buying demograph) and by extension, Radio One/Two heavy rotation.

After years of trial and error, the group finally hit upon a pop formula for a couple of years between 1992 and 1995, crystallising with Different Class, but the artier, experimental side of them, never too far away in all their pre-fame years; was given more of a free reign once they had the respect of the boardroom and had delivered a hit album.

So they may have thought, "Fuck it, let's just do what we want". They were also approaching 40 and probably not as driven to make the fizzy anthems and pop records as previously. And the last thing they wanted in 1997 was more limelight. It must have been a really tricky time for band and label alike.



-- Edited by Eamonn on Tuesday 18th of July 2023 12:18:40 AM

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Sturdy


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When I first heard Minnie and Weeds at Leeds 2000, I thought either of them felt like singles. Didn't get that at all when I eventually heard Trees (even though it's great).

This is Hardcore is slim pickings for singles, but Party Hard would probably have been the best bet, shame it didn't come out till the album was dead in the water. Title track was great a statement, and could maybe have been stronger if it came out as the first one.

Pink Glove definitely feels like a single, but wouldn't swap it for Babies getting its overdue day in the sun.

Live On and Death Comes to Town are a great pair of "what ifs".

Freaks doesn't really have a strong single either - maybe Little Girl and/or Dogs should've been on it.

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Sturdy


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PS interesting nugget on Death Comes to Town - Clive Solomon once told me he was keen to put it out in the run-up to Separations, but Jarvis by that point had decided it was "too cheesy"!

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TheDev


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If Party Hard was the lead single off This Is Hardcore it would have been a mega hit I think.

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lipglossed


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Sturdy wrote:

Freaks doesn't really have a strong single either - maybe Little Girl and/or Dogs should've been on it.

 It's a weird one as it's certainly not much of a pop record, but I feel that I Want You is so obviously the strongest song from the album, both from a conceptual point of view and as a final product, that it should've been a single in some form. (And if you wanted a poppier counterpoint, there's always Don't You Know, which is similar lyrical territory - probably too similar - but something approaching a pop song.)

I think I'd have picked I Want You and then They Suffocate At Night. Not really a lot to choose from.



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lipglossed


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Sturdy wrote:

PS interesting nugget on Death Comes to Town - Clive Solomon once told me he was keen to put it out in the run-up to Separations, but Jarvis by that point had decided it was "too cheesy"!

 Oh for christ's sakes, Jarvis!

Mark, you once said that Pulp were a brilliant band who just for many reasons couldn't hack the process of making albums, for love nor money. I don't know if you still stand by that (was having a deep trawl through the forum archives the other day), but on some level I do agree, and I think part of it boils down to the difficulty, as a band, of judging your own material...

Death Comes to Town doesn't compete with My Legendary Girlfriend or Countdown, but if it had dribbled out at some point around 1990 it would've been a definite net positive. It's like Jarvis's attitude to other things - they had to get Help the Aged out because it was itself (ironically) "getting on a bit"...



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weej


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The obvious Freaks-era single is Mark Of The Devil.
Not that there was any chance of it being a hit, mind.



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Eamonn


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TheDev wrote:

If Party Hard was the lead single off This Is Hardcore it would have been a mega hit I think.

 Yeah, I definitely think it's the closest but even then, I'm not sure they make enough of the "Baby, you're driving me crazy" hook in the chorus - it needs to be repeated more and signposted better in the production.

And Mark S is probably right about Minnie Timperly being the most obvious thing off WLL. But y'know, I don't think it's a patch on their upbeat/glam stomping singles up to that point so I don't rue that one so much. The bass and drums sound great in a club though, really f'kin loud (also heard at a Pulp night in an indie club - must have been the same one where I requested She Said She Was A Dancer).

 



-- Edited by Eamonn on Tuesday 18th of July 2023 12:24:12 AM

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Sturdy


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Yeah, I'm not saying Minnie is a big favourite of mine personally, but it struck me at the time as very much the sort of thing Zoe Ball would have played on Radio 1 circa 2000/01. Sunrise and The Trees, not so much!

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Sturdy


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lipglossed wrote:
Sturdy wrote:

PS interesting nugget on Death Comes to Town - Clive Solomon once told me he was keen to put it out in the run-up to Separations, but Jarvis by that point had decided it was "too cheesy"!

 Oh for christ's sakes, Jarvis!

Mark, you once said that Pulp were a brilliant band who just for many reasons couldn't hack the process of making albums, for love nor money. I don't know if you still stand by that (was having a deep trawl through the forum archives the other day), but on some level I do agree, and I think part of it boils down to the difficulty, as a band, of judging your own material...

Yeah I do stand by that. I love Pulp's albums (it'd be a bit weird of I didn't), but it seems like because an album is / can be a big statement, they often fell into the trap of second-guessing and overthinking, meaning that the unpolished raw material sometimes had a spark that the final products didn't. It's almost like there was some kernel of self-doubt that felt they somehow weren't quite good enough to be making records, so they kind of over-compensated in the recording process. And yep, in amongst all that, some great songs fell down the cracks.



-- Edited by Sturdy on Tuesday 18th of July 2023 12:35:19 PM

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SarahAWilson


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Pretty sure it was Mark who said that the tracklisting on TIH was a case of Jarvis's will overriding everyone else's common sense?

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Ian


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This is what Mark said about the title track:
I was never a very big fan of this song. I can appreciate that it's good work, but I never really liked it from the outset. Jarvis didn't want people to expect an album of Common People and Disco 2000. He wanted to redraw the boundaries, and recently it's been a case of Jarvis' will overriding everyone else's common sense.

I think that "I'm a Man" could have been a big hit but the only issue is that they really couldn't get it right live.

Another one that I've been thinking of is "Maureen". Granted, none of the 1980s singles ever had any hope of getting near the charts but it's a fantastic song. That said, I think that the Sudan Gerri version is better than the Ping Pong Jerry version.

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Eamonn


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They couldn't get I'm A Man right in the studio either. All those trqcks of chugging, uninspiring guitar. Would like to hear the demo to see how it sounded (presumably) more stripped down.

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It's better at Glasto and Roskilde. "I'm a Man" needs to be quicker, brisk and snappy. The version on record is slightly too leaden and slow, and that makes it feel like it goes on too long (which stifles its ability to work well as a satirical statement). And it's also lacking in variation - it could do with the sort of bridge that "Party Hard" has; something to break up the song, and develop the themes just a little more.

There's a killer chorus in there. The song should be a knees-up, bitter, bile-flecked crowd-pleaser that the love band rattles off 2 or 3 songs into the set to build momentum, like Disco 2000 or Mis-Shapes.

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Hmm, sorry for bumping this, but hmm...

Monday Morning. Has the whole package. Could've really made it up the charts. Probably more of a single than Sorted or FEELINGCALLEDLOVE.

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Ian


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I thought of this but it does get a bit too noisy towards the end.

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