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Misshaped


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"Somewhere in a parallel dimension..."

For no apparent reason whatsoever, every member of the Bar Italia forum has been given the power to bend the laws of time and space. Rather than use this newfound gift to change society in any kind of important fashion, it has been unanimously decided that we use our godlike abilities to create other realities where Pulp released certain songs as singles that weren't so in our universe. 

As we're a smart and conscientious bunch, we have charted up a set of rules to prevent both utter chaos and redundant choices:

1. Anything priorly released in the UK as a single is not allowed, it has already had its chance.

2. Each member is allowed a maximum of four choices but must remember that they are all made independently of each other. This means we are banned from using a new set of circumstances created from one of our options to give a later one a commercial boost down the line (I.E. A hit from the This is Hardcore era is not allowed to change the straits that the band were in during their "We Love Life" stage). It's for the best, change too many things and something might get broken and we might all turn into fish people - I'm assuming none of us want that.

3. Be reasonable, I don't want anyone releasing Tunnel and claiming that it goes to number one and sells "Mull of Kintyre" levels.

4. It can be anything you want it to be, just as long as you don't try to compete with me.

Choices (in chronological order)

1. Pink Glove (released after Do You Remember...). Highest possible chart position: 20-15. Likely Position: 42-30

2. Mile End (1996/1997). HPCP: 2. LP: 10-2.

3. Like a Friend (released as first or second This is Hardcore era single). HPCP: 1. LP: 10-3.

4. Birds in Your Garden. HPCP: 12 LP: 25-15.

Umm, that's your lot, I guess. 



-- Edited by Misshaped on Saturday 6th of April 2013 12:45:41 PM



-- Edited by Misshaped on Saturday 6th of April 2013 01:13:15 PM

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weej


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I'll have a go at this, but not going to bother with the chart placings, sorry.

1. Mark Of The Devil in 1986 (a proper recording, as a lead single instead of Dogs Are Everywhere)

2. Rattlesnake on FON in 1988 (a Slavic disco EP with DYWMA / My First Wife (2) / Separations)

~~~~then I'm happy to leave the Intro-HnH-DC era alone~~~~~~

3. Like A Friend (/ The Professional in 1998 (A double A-side instead of A Little Soul - one side for the radio, one for the hardcore fans. LAF is the non-double-tracked version)

4. The Night That Minnie Timperley Died in 2002 (instead of Bad Cover Version. And Sunrise should be the lead single instead of The Trees, am I allowed that? probably not, sorry.)



-- Edited by weej on Saturday 6th of April 2013 03:03:33 PM

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Jarvgirl


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Misshaped wrote:

Everytime I think I have their back-catalogue pinned down, I find out that there's a ton more stuff that I've missed (mostly discovered through this forum). I've noticed that Pulp's unreleased stuff is of an unusually high quality compared to many other bands.

 I reckon that's got a lot to do with Jarv's inability to stop writing songs. he writes that many that there's loads to choose from, which is strange I guess when you hear that he has to rush to write the lyrics cos he's so lazy.



-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Saturday 6th of April 2013 03:30:10 PM

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Jarvgirl


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Ha! I've just come back on here mid-YouTube to say that it's the Pitchfork 2008 vids where he talks about his writing. It's a bus not a train that he mentions but still. lovely interview, the interviewer is really laid back and let's Jarvis just chat away which is nice.



i should add that maybe it's the different approach to FC that makes me love it. I think it's much more about him rather than being full of characters like maybe His and Hers.



-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Saturday 6th of April 2013 04:05:13 PM



-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Saturday 6th of April 2013 04:05:46 PM

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Misshaped


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TV Movie is an interesting one, always felt a bit underdeveloped to me though quite sweet.
I'm going to use this opportunity to swap Mile End with His n Hers.



-- Edited by Misshaped on Saturday 6th of April 2013 05:01:54 PM

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Jarvgirl


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Tv Movie makes me sad, I tend to get half way through it and then skip it due to sadness. Same with A Little Soul, although I do listen all the way through that. 

 

"And I can't think of a way 
to get through this pain: 
To be happy again, to make it all alright 
And I know it must be bad 
'cos sitting here right now 
all I know is I can't even think 
I can't even think of anything clever to say"

 

now, it must be when Jarv and Camille broke up when he wrote this, I reckon. It just makes me so sad!



-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Saturday 6th of April 2013 05:12:14 PM

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Eamonn


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1. We Can Dance Again (most likely Pulp hit ever - interim single between Babies and Common People after the band realise how powerful it is - nearly collapsing the balcony at the Drury Lane Christmas show). Jan 1995 HPCP: 1-10 Likely Position: 6-15 First top ten hit defo

2. Cocaine Socialism (anything released between Something Changed and Help The Aged would have been a hit given their stock at the time. What better opportunity to use this to their advantage with a savage lyric and a recycled tune?) May 1997 HPCP: 10-20 LP: 11

3. (Alternative to the above) It's A Dirty World (Help The Aged is ditched and Pulp's comeback is brought forward a couple of months to September. Britain, in the midst of Diana grief, ditches Elton's candles in the wind and agree that it is indeed a deeply unfair, dirty world Sep 1997 HPCP: 3-10 LP: 3-15

4. After You (We Love Life is taking longer than originally thought but this song along with Sunrise is debuted to great acclaim at Leeds/Reading 2000. Much talk over which to put out as a stop-gap. Universal worry that neither have a proper chorus but after much championing from Radio 1 ultimately it's decided that After You should go to the ball. Oct 2000 HPCP: 6-20 LP: 12-15

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Misshaped


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*Proceeds to listen to "We Can Dance Again" for the first time.*
Wha...Whuh...Why did this never get past being a demo? Most bands would kill for a chorus as good as that! Trust Pulp to leave it on the cutting room floor and then just stick it on a bonus disc ten years later.


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Jarvgirl


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I do love a bit of We Can Dance Again, I like it when Jarv goes disco.



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Misshaped


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Kicking myself that I have only heard it today, can honestly see it becoming a favourite.

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Eamonn


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Misshaped wrote:

*Proceeds to listen to "We Can Dance Again" for the first time.*

 

           Blimey, I imagine you've a treasure trove of unreleased stuff to get stuck into.



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Misshaped


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That's fine, I only used chart placings as a way of measuring how successful I think the releases would be.

I forgot about "The Night Thar Minnie...", probably better than "The Birds...".

Unfortunately, Sunrise is not acceptable due to being part of a double A-side, B-sides are fine though.



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shotoki


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1. Wishful Thinking (after the Peel session)
2. Live On (instead of Lipgloss)
3. We Can Dance Again (after Common People) - could have got to number 1
4. Sylvia (instead of A Little Soul)

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Jarvgirl


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right, I'm just going to say four songs I think should have been released and leave it at that really. Sorry!

 

Pink Glove. (Why oh why oh why wasn't this released?)

We Can Dance Again. 

Its A Dirty World.

Weeds (Bob Lind on the B side please)



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Misshaped


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Everytime I think I have their back-catalogue pinned down, I find out that there's a ton more stuff that I've missed (mostly discovered through this forum). I've noticed that Pulp's unreleased stuff is of an unusually high quality compared to many other bands.



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Misshaped


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Is he still writing? It's been too long since "Further Complications" (which is a perfectly fine album but IMO lacked the "wow" factor that his Pulp and "Jarvis" material had).



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Jarvgirl


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He has said that he can just be on a train or something and a song will just pop into his head ill see if I can find where he said that and what else he said.

it is too long since Further Complications, which I love in a completely separate way to all the Pulp stuff. I hope he decides to do some more.



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Misshaped


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I read somewhere (possibly Pitchfork?) that Jarvis' approach to Further Complications was a bit different than usual, he wrote all of the songs and lyrics really quickly rather than letting it all come to him naturally. Which possibly explains why FC is such an immediate record but one that doesn't leave the listener (or maybe just me) with much of an impression afterwards.



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Misshaped


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It certainly has its place, it provides a good counterpoint to the rather dark and more musically accomplished "Jarvis". "Hold Still", "I Never Said...", and "Discosong" feel a lot more personal than some of his earlier stuff.

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srhelvetica


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* Ansaphone
* TV Movie
* Joyriders
* Cocaine socialism

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Violin Thing


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Live on (Lead single on Sister's EP, no more Babies allowed)
We Can Dance Again (After Common People)
Cocaine Socialism (Before Help the Aged)
It's a Dirty World (After Help The Aged

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Eamonn


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Good choices but I think We Can Dance Again had to come before Common People. Anytime after and while a guaranteed hit - especially in the wake of Common People's success, it would have come across as a bit of a pastiche...the reason it was dropped in the first place.

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Violin Thing


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I was thinking Pulp could have created Record Store Day and could have released it as a special single...I got a bit too involved in my thinking. But yeah you're right.

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Jarvgirl I think Camille and Jarvis met when she was doing the styling for TIH, they were together for a while then she binned him off, then they got back together again and married. then she binned him off again! she is an idiot. His new lady is much nicer. Camille always looked like she had poo smeared under her nose



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Jarvgirl


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Ah I thought at they were together before TIH, fair do's. Bless him though it does make me sad! What a silly woman though! Do we know why she got rid this last time? He is much better off with this Kim I reckon :)



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Fuss Free


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I'm a Man (in place of A Little Soul)

I'm a Man is to TIH what Misshapes is to DC. Like Misshapes its short, punchy and direct. Its the mission statement of the album (exposing the emptyness of modern masculine identity), and the band has oddly divorced themselves from it.

To be honest I am not a big fan of the song. It probably wouldn't even make it into my top 100 list. But I still think it would have made a hit single. Certainly its better than A Little Soul though, which was a bog standard country/western song tarted up with a Yorkshire accent. My nickname for A Little Soul is "Gareth Brooks".



-- Edited by Fuss Free on Thursday 11th of April 2013 07:00:43 AM

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(apologies if my previous post was unreadable, my mobile doesn't recognise line breaks)

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Misshaped


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Perfectly readable. The worse things about mobiles can be the autocorrect function, which is utterly bizarre at times.

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Jarvgirl


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Misshaped wrote:

Perfectly readable. The worse things about mobiles can be the autocorrect function, which is utterly bizarre at times.

Estes! what is that able about? I've let it SImoney words as Tim wants to.


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shotoki


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I agree, I'm A Man is one of the few instantly likeable songs from TIH, perfect choice for a single.

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Misshaped


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Ian impressed if you deliberately quackery the autocorrect junction onto writing that. As I have just did.



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Jarvgirl


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haha, funncgi job tricked bbc itmm nicer I than qgeit it'd doeit it begs you don't qant it to.



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andy


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That Camille girl was poison, i mean it was written on her face. And judging by the pics of her on the interweb, she prefers women anwyays biggrin

As for the thread, the obvious one would be We Can Dance Again. It was always this or Disco 2000 as single contender and i guess they made the right choice, but in 95, there was room for the two songs. Razmatazz isn't too different and it was a single, it was just their sound back then. It would have made a hit easily. It's more bass driven when disco 2000 sits on the guitars, so i guess with a little work they could have sounded differently.

Glory Days could also have been a hit. Especially since they previously released weird songs as single (TIH, A little soul). It would have helped This Is Hardcore.



-- Edited by andy on Wednesday 10th of April 2013 12:04:12 AM



-- Edited by andy on Wednesday 10th of April 2013 12:12:04 AM

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It's all about the gaps for me.

1984 - EP with Maureen, Take You Back, Back in LA and Cousins

1987 - Death Comes to Town, DYWMA? and Rattlesnake in whatever configuration you prefer. Perhaps even a couple of EPs, padded out with My First Wife (versions 1 and 2), Heart Trouble and an early version or two of some Separations songs

late 1991 / early 1992 - Live On, providing a perfect bridge between Countdown and OU

2000/2001 - Weeds and / or Minnie Timperley

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Eamonn


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Never made the connection between A Little Soul and Garth Brooks I must say! Smokey Robinson, yes, the riff. Arrangement...I guess there's a bit of a c&w twang but I think it works (though, to better effect on Laughing Boy). Anathema if you're a big Russell-head I guess.

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Jarvgirl


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With all the love for We Can Dance Again, it annoys me that whoever does Pulpfans on twitter basically said that Jarv can't do disco.



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weej


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What is 'Pulpfans'? It's a feed for Britpop News, yes, but what is Britpop News?

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It just repeats stories and the other day when I asked by what they meant by way of Jarvis writing a new book they blanked me, cretins.

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Jarvgirl


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I'm sure they just make stuff up occasionally. Their reviews of Pulp and Jarv albums are pretty pointless.

 

oh, wait, they've hit a new low with this

 

I could be wrong here but as far as my memory serves this was the first official single from Pulp. Im not really sure exactly what to say other than that the guitar part leading into the chorus is the sweet part of the song. The content should be fairly obvious given the title. Its not the greatest Pulp song, but its a fantastic song in my book.

thisis about Do You Remember The First Time?



-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Wednesday 10th of April 2013 09:46:27 AM



-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Wednesday 10th of April 2013 09:46:59 AM

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Jarvgirl


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Right. This is the final nail in the credibility coffin of Britpop news. Weller. Paul Weller. The Modfather. In the Britpop Bands List.

 

and The Jam!!!!!!



-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Wednesday 10th of April 2013 10:28:06 AM

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Bloody cretins.

 

 

i think you should out them Weej!



-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Wednesday 10th of April 2013 10:56:33 AM

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I wouldn't mind AS MUCH if they hadn't, several times, posted a 'Pulp -Singles Retrospective'!



-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Wednesday 10th of April 2013 01:52:23 PM

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weej


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The whole thing has a faint whiff of SEO about it. :(

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Is it very wrong that I don't know what SEO means?



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weej


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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization

http://britpopnews.com/about-britpop-news/

http://villagegreenmedia.biz/



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Misshaped


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That review is comically bad, it reads more like a YouTube comment than anything. 



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triciathetree


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their review of Freaks left something to be desired

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Misshaped


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After a few minutes of browsing their Pulp content, I would say that everything leaves a lot to be desired.

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Jarvgirl


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Oops. britpop news justil old me to fuck myself, made a few strange excuses and then blocked me. 

I am so going to miss their in depth reviews.



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Misshaped


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For what you said on here? Seems pretty unreasonable.

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I asked him why they pretended to be a news/interest site when they don't know anything about the things they "review"

and told him/them that he should probably have his facts checked if he didn't want people digging around in his company, and posted a link to his marketing website.

 

Like I said. Oops.

 

im sorry, but you don't call The Jam and Weller britpop and miss out 12 Pulp singles without a backlash! :)

he sort of said "1: fuck yourself 2: I said I might be wrong, and those pulp single didnt even chart and 3": blah blah blah mumble run away block.



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triciathetree wrote:

hm that's unfortunate. there are a variety of writers for britpop news though. my friend kayley is one of them actually but she didn't write any of the pulp stuff as far as I know. I think she does more of the fashion stuff.

anyway kind of an immature reaction for someone to have to criticism

 

I checked who'd written the pulp stuff, it was the person who runs it, Ian's it was him that I was talking to. I also said that it was him I was critiscising. I didn't have a go at any other writers

he's changed the description of the thing now to include a line about the site not being like the guardian which was one of I his little rants yesterday, as if that was what i was saying!

 



-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Thursday 11th of April 2013 09:22:27 AM

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And that news in pictures story is hilarious isn't it. It just goes to show that while the writers have an interest in music and fashion. The boss doesn't seem to. He deleted his tweets to me btw. 

britpopnews:if you just spent 10 seconds you'd see that is a website because there's a design but to be a literal news site like the guardian only shows you don't read.

Anyway, that's the last about it from me.



-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Thursday 11th of April 2013 09:41:30 AM

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triciathetree


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hm that's unfortunate. there are a variety of writers for britpop news though. my friend kayley is one of them actually but she didn't write any of the pulp stuff as far as I know. I think she does more of the fashion stuff.

anyway kind of an immature reaction for someone to have to criticism

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Jarvgirl


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Well lets get it back on those rails! These are my choices!

 

Pink Glove. (Why oh why oh why wasn't this released?)

We Can Dance Again. 

Its A Dirty World.

Birds In Your Garden (Weeds on the B side please)


I'm sure you changed you mind on one, quick, now's your chance to redo your list!


-- Edited by Jarvgirl on Thursday 11th of April 2013 01:45:13 PM

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weej


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Oh dear, hope I haven't stirred up any trouble here.

Bit conflicted, as obviously people starting up websites to write about stuff I'm interested in = a good thing. Writers need somewhere to write (& an audience to write for) and working for this kind of site (or buzzfeed or whatever) is the easiest way in right now.
Right now though, too much seems to be "gap in the market" -> "content creation" -> ad sales, and this clogs up the internet with dispiritingly hollow articles with nothing much to say - and as they are the ones who are doing all the SEO stuff, genuinely interesting stuff tends to get buried.

Anyway, right or wrong, there's no need for this - http://britpopnews.com/news-in-pictures-overly-dramatic-music-fan-takes-mistakes-too-seriously/





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Pretty bad behaviour on their part. I suppose if those who run it are unwilling to take criticism and improve, you can always visit plenty of the other decent music sites on the web. I hope the more passionate writers from britpopnews find a more decent gig.

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Yep. I've tweeted a little statement about how my disagreement with one man wasn't anything to do with the talent of any off the real writers. Not that many will read it!

 

aaannnnyywaaaay, those pesky songs that weren't released as singles or became hits eh?



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Misshaped


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Those were halycon days, weren't they? The forum has already gone a bit off-topic a couple of times.

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Misshaped


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Mine has changed a little bit:

Pink Glove.

We Can Dance

Like a Friend

The Night that Minnie...

Honourable mentions (which I realise is cheating) for His n Hers, Mile End, It's a Dirty World, I'm a Man, and Birds in your Garden.
Great, back on track now.



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Sturdy


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We Can Dance Again is overrated. There, I said it!

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Jarvgirl


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Sturdy wrote:

We Can Dance Again is overrated. There, I said it!

 :O I just felt something pop in my brain!



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Eamonn


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Perhaps but it wudda been a sure-fire hit regardless of its merits!

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shotoki


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It would have been a hit no doubt, but I'm so glad they didn't release it. Its just too cheesy and would have attracted more of a pop crowd and alienated the indie crowd.

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shotoki


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I'm changing my 3rd and 4th choices:

Wishful Thinking
Live On
Mile End
I'm A Man


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Violin Thing


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I didn't bother putting Mile End because it was already out on the soundtrack but I see where you're coming from.

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shotoki


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I think the Trainspotting connection could have done it a favour actually, Born Slippy sold well.

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weej


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The thing with Mile End is that while it's a very entertaining track there's also something a little annoying about how relentlessly januty it is. If it had been a single we might be sick of it by now. It's also a bit of an all-out challenge to Blur, who'd played a huge homecoming-style gig there the year before, and putting it out as a single is a bit too confrontational.

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Jarvgirl


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I love it for the jauntiness while still having scathing lyrics thing that they do so well. But if it became as tedious as disco2000 after all that air play, I can see what you mean about becoming sick of it. At least Disco2000 has got the awesome intro to fall back on.



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Sturdy


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Jarvgirl wrote:
Sturdy wrote:

We Can Dance Again is overrated. There, I said it!

 :O I just felt something pop in my brain!

OK, maybe not overrated exactly... but I think stuff that didn't get released (if it's any good) sometimes gets over-elevated if that makes sense. Because it's 'lost' that seems to almost automatically make it a 'lost classic'. If it had made it on to Different Class and been played to death for the past 18 years, would we still be getting excited about it?



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Jarvgirl


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It's ok, I thought it was funny that we were all like "ooh this is is great!" And then you came along and just went "no it isn't!" :)



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shotoki


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Sturdy wrote:
stuff that didn't get released (if it's any good) sometimes gets over-elevated if that makes sense. Because it's 'lost' that seems to almost automatically make it a 'lost classic'.

 This describes the reaction to After You perfectly.



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saw119


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Sturdy wrote:
Jarvgirl wrote:
Sturdy wrote:

We Can Dance Again is overrated. There, I said it!

 :O I just felt something pop in my brain!

OK, maybe not overrated exactly... but I think stuff that didn't get released (if it's any good) sometimes gets over-elevated if that makes sense. Because it's 'lost' that seems to almost automatically make it a 'lost classic'. If it had made it on to Different Class and been played to death for the past 18 years, would we still be getting excited about it?

 I find it difficult to get excited about at any time.



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Jazza


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Violin Thing wrote:

It just repeats stories and the other day when I asked by what they meant by way of Jarvis writing a new book they blanked me, cretins.

 Could be referring to Jarvis saying he was writing a novel on the SS coachella



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lipglossed


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Bringing this thread back again! Because...

...has anyone else noticed a theme with this year's setlists?

(SPOILERS BELOW! SPOILERS FOR THIS YEAR'S LIVE SETLISTS!)

...

...

...

...

...

...

OK. Still here? Grand.

Anyway, the band has a consistent core of songs that they are playing a lot. There hasn't been much variation. And I think they've chosen - or, I suppose, curate - it with something in mind.

Firstly, we have the hit singles (Common People, Disco 2000, First Time?, Babies, Something Changed, Sorted, Mis-Shapes, Hardcore, Sunrise). And when they've played encores, they've played Razzmatazz and After You, which are also singles.

We then have three album tracks from Different Class, including F.E.E.L.I.N.G. (which has been an incredibly consistent part of Pulp live sets ever since 1995), and I Spy (which is their opener, as it was in 1995/6, and is a huge live favourite). And of course there's Underwear, which was the B-side of Common People*, and since then won a place on the album over Mile End and is now one of the band's most-streamed tracks.

But then... what else? We might think of the other songs as relative 'deep cuts', but:

- Pink Glove was Pulp's original choice of 3rd single from His 'N' Hers. Island disagreed, and decided to re-release Babies as part of The Sisters EP
- Glory Days was originally a candidate for the first single off This Is Hardcore (source: T&B), but the whole debate over what form was better led to Help the Aged being chosen
- Like a Friend was reputedly (I'm going off something from an old Pulp People mag) originally going to be a single in America, and has seen retroactive engagement and acclaim
- Weeds was Pulp's original choice of 2nd single from We Love Life. Island disagreed, and decided to release The Trees instead, on a double A-side with Sunrise

The band themselves always envisioned Pink Glove and Weeds as singles, Glory Days/Cocaine Socialism/Northern Souls was nearly one, and Like a Friend can't have been that far away, either. And they've chosen to play these songs instead of, say, Lipgloss (they can't recreate the sound), Help the Aged (a bit rum), A Little Soul (not a crowdpleaser), and Bad Cover Version (ever-so-slightly dated).

Did they make a conscious decision to bring some old mis-hits out for a moment in the sun? Could this, dare I say, precipitate a 'Mis-Hits' album, where these songs are released alongside some others that didn't make it onto Hits?

Oh, and there was also Dishes, though they dropped that after two gigs. I think Dishes is a lovely tune, and apparently it's one of Jarvis's favourites, and it's also quite gentle - which explains why A) it was a good choice for Bridlington, and B) it hasn't come back since the Warrington show a few days later.

*I've heard that single was envisioned as a double-A at first, but then Common People went all massive - but the source was Eamonn and it was something from a medieval thread I was lurking on.

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Ian


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I have been thinking the same. Effectively everything in the setlist (that wasn't already a single) could have been. There's only really "I Spy" (but let's face it, Pulp could have released whatever they wanted in 1995-6 and it would have sold) and "Weeds II" that don't really fit.

"FEELINGCALLEDLOVE" was considered as the final single from "Different Class" according to a Pulp newsletter which said something along the lines of "The band are still deciding whether FEELINGCALLEDLOVE or Something Changed will be the next single".

As far as I remember, "Glory Days" was never considered for single release but "Cocaine Socialism" (then known as "Northern Souls") definitely was. Perhaps the band would struggle to play the latter what with all the horns and stuff.

"Like a Friend" was definitely released in the US, I have a copy of the promo. It contains the b-side version and an edit: www.youtube.com/watch

"The Fear" was also released in the US. The CD contains an edit which is the same as the album version but fades out about a minute earlier and a 10 second sample of the chorus which is subtitled "Research Hook". I don't think these are on YouTube but I will try to dig them out. It would be nice if we could hear it played live this year.

Not sure about "Weeds", if it was their second choice for single from "We Love Life" then it would have replaced "Bad Cover Version". That said, there is a promo which contains the "full" track without segueing into "Weeds II".

-- Edited by Ian on Thursday 13th of July 2023 08:48:08 PM

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lipglossed


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Ian wrote:

Not sure about "Weeds", if it was their second choice for single from "We Love Life" then it would have replaced "Bad Cover Version". That said, there is a promo which contains the "full" track without segueing into "Weeds II".

-- Edited by Ian on Thursday 13th of July 2023 08:48:08 PM

 I think the plan would've been Sunrise, Weeds, Bad Cover Version.



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weej


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I remember there being a lot of "Birds In Your Garden" merch available during the WLL tour, which suggests it was supposed to be a single.

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SarahAWilson


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weej wrote:

I remember there being a lot of "Birds In Your Garden" merch available during the WLL tour, which suggests it was supposed to be a single.

 Didn't Pulp People do a poll for fans to vote for the new single, but it got vetoed by Island or something.



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lipglossed


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SarahAWilson wrote:
weej wrote:

I remember there being a lot of "Birds In Your Garden" merch available during the WLL tour, which suggests it was supposed to be a single.

 Didn't Pulp People do a poll for fans to vote for the new single, but it got vetoed by Island or something.

 Pulp People chose Birds and then Bad Cover Version. I think the poll wasn't connected to Pulp themselves though.



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Pip


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Judging by its appearances on Later With Jools Holland and Friday Night with Jonathan Ross (acoustic with Candida), Birds was certainly favoured.

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Another case of "this is the oldest song, let's get it out" then?

Bad Cover Version I think I'm right in saying was picked because it has more 'pop' appeal. It was a last throw of the dice.

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Ian


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Back to the original discussion but I'm totally disregarding the rules. I would have released the following singles:

Now that we've heard some of the early 1980s tracks:
Please Don't Worry
Barefoot in the Park

From It:
My Lighthouse
In Many Ways (b/w There Was)

Then:
Maureen (b/w Take You Back)
Little Girl (With Blue Eyes)
Dogs are Everywhere

Freaks:
They Suffocate at Night

I would have skipped Master of the Universe if...

Death Comes to Town was released in 1987 b/w Rattlesnake

Separations:
My Legendary Girlfriend (b/w Going Back to Find Her)
Countdown
And if they had managed to get the album out earlier, "Death II" as the third single.

I wouldn't change anything from "OU" to "Mis-Shapes"/"Sorted for E's and Wizz" (though I would have added in a couple of extra b-sides to the "Different Class" singles).

However, I would have released "Something Changed" in late 1995 and "Disco 2000" with plenty of promotion as soon as possible after the Brit Awards in 1996. Selling out? Maybe.

This is Hardcore
It's a Dirty World (b/w Tomorrow Never Lies and Laughing Boy)
This is Hardcore and Glory Days as a double A-side (b/w TV Movie and Ladies Man plus the remixes, The Professional would have been on the album)
NB. The chart rules changed in mid-1998 to a maximum of 3 tracks per format.
Sylvia (CD1 b/w A Little Soul and Cocaine Socialism, CD2 b/w Like a Friend and That Boy's Evil - no crappy remixes this time)
Party Hard (b/w We Are The Boyz and Modern Marriage plus the remixes)

We Love Life
Sunrise - straight after the 2000 shows, they could have recorded it like "Sorted" where they mixed a live version with studio recordings (of which they had a couple by this time) and backed it with live songs and remixes and used a live video. Everyone was talking about "Sunrise" at this time so it would have made sense to release it. The final album version would have been different.
After You in mid-2001
Weeds after the album
Birds in Your Garden

-- Edited by Ian on Friday 14th of July 2023 08:46:17 PM

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lipglossed


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On the matter of We Love Life...

Pulp themselves might still resent Island a little bit for insisting on The Trees, because the official Pulp account (@welovepulp) actually liked my rather silly meme!

twitter.com/Pulpitude/status/1677316675878764544/photo/1

The Trees isn't the *least* commercial song on the album, I'm exaggerating a little, but my god, it's NOT a comeback single by any shakes. Although Pulp had already committed commercial suicide three years before, so from Island's point of view, perhaps it's understandable (?)



-- Edited by lipglossed on Monday 17th of July 2023 03:36:49 PM

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Eamonn


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I love Pulp's last two albums/eras (and should the remaining 1999/2000 songs ever see the light of day, I might even love WLL the most) but I have some sympathy for Island/Universal from a commercial/singles perspective. You'd be hard-pressed to find a hit from the, what, 50(?) or so songs demo'd or fully recorded by Pulp between 1997 and 2001.

Help The Aged was really a hang-over from the "classic" line-up, brewed in 1996 soundchecks presumably but soon rejected by Lieutenant Senior. That at least had an explosive chorus but if you take the hookier moments of the post-DC years, I just don't see how the likes of Northern Souls/Cocaine Socialism, We Are The Boyz, Party Hard, After You, Trees, Weeds, Birds In Your Garden would/could have ever made much of a dent in the charts. There's just something too gauche about them or, the opposite - subtle, and the WLL material probably a bit too grown-up for teens (the main single-buying demograph) and by extension, Radio One/Two heavy rotation.

After years of trial and error, the group finally hit upon a pop formula for a couple of years between 1992 and 1995, crystallising with Different Class, but the artier, experimental side of them, never too far away in all their pre-fame years; was given more of a free reign once they had the respect of the boardroom and had delivered a hit album.

So they may have thought, "Fuck it, let's just do what we want". They were also approaching 40 and probably not as driven to make the fizzy anthems and pop records as previously. And the last thing they wanted in 1997 was more limelight. It must have been a really tricky time for band and label alike.



-- Edited by Eamonn on Tuesday 18th of July 2023 12:18:40 AM

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When I first heard Minnie and Weeds at Leeds 2000, I thought either of them felt like singles. Didn't get that at all when I eventually heard Trees (even though it's great).

This is Hardcore is slim pickings for singles, but Party Hard would probably have been the best bet, shame it didn't come out till the album was dead in the water. Title track was great a statement, and could maybe have been stronger if it came out as the first one.

Pink Glove definitely feels like a single, but wouldn't swap it for Babies getting its overdue day in the sun.

Live On and Death Comes to Town are a great pair of "what ifs".

Freaks doesn't really have a strong single either - maybe Little Girl and/or Dogs should've been on it.

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Sturdy


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PS interesting nugget on Death Comes to Town - Clive Solomon once told me he was keen to put it out in the run-up to Separations, but Jarvis by that point had decided it was "too cheesy"!

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TheDev


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If Party Hard was the lead single off This Is Hardcore it would have been a mega hit I think.

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Sturdy wrote:

Freaks doesn't really have a strong single either - maybe Little Girl and/or Dogs should've been on it.

 It's a weird one as it's certainly not much of a pop record, but I feel that I Want You is so obviously the strongest song from the album, both from a conceptual point of view and as a final product, that it should've been a single in some form. (And if you wanted a poppier counterpoint, there's always Don't You Know, which is similar lyrical territory - probably too similar - but something approaching a pop song.)

I think I'd have picked I Want You and then They Suffocate At Night. Not really a lot to choose from.



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Sturdy wrote:

PS interesting nugget on Death Comes to Town - Clive Solomon once told me he was keen to put it out in the run-up to Separations, but Jarvis by that point had decided it was "too cheesy"!

 Oh for christ's sakes, Jarvis!

Mark, you once said that Pulp were a brilliant band who just for many reasons couldn't hack the process of making albums, for love nor money. I don't know if you still stand by that (was having a deep trawl through the forum archives the other day), but on some level I do agree, and I think part of it boils down to the difficulty, as a band, of judging your own material...

Death Comes to Town doesn't compete with My Legendary Girlfriend or Countdown, but if it had dribbled out at some point around 1990 it would've been a definite net positive. It's like Jarvis's attitude to other things - they had to get Help the Aged out because it was itself (ironically) "getting on a bit"...



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weej


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The obvious Freaks-era single is Mark Of The Devil.
Not that there was any chance of it being a hit, mind.



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TheDev wrote:

If Party Hard was the lead single off This Is Hardcore it would have been a mega hit I think.

 Yeah, I definitely think it's the closest but even then, I'm not sure they make enough of the "Baby, you're driving me crazy" hook in the chorus - it needs to be repeated more and signposted better in the production.

And Mark S is probably right about Minnie Timperly being the most obvious thing off WLL. But y'know, I don't think it's a patch on their upbeat/glam stomping singles up to that point so I don't rue that one so much. The bass and drums sound great in a club though, really f'kin loud (also heard at a Pulp night in an indie club - must have been the same one where I requested She Said She Was A Dancer).

 



-- Edited by Eamonn on Tuesday 18th of July 2023 12:24:12 AM

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Yeah, I'm not saying Minnie is a big favourite of mine personally, but it struck me at the time as very much the sort of thing Zoe Ball would have played on Radio 1 circa 2000/01. Sunrise and The Trees, not so much!

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Sturdy


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lipglossed wrote:
Sturdy wrote:

PS interesting nugget on Death Comes to Town - Clive Solomon once told me he was keen to put it out in the run-up to Separations, but Jarvis by that point had decided it was "too cheesy"!

 Oh for christ's sakes, Jarvis!

Mark, you once said that Pulp were a brilliant band who just for many reasons couldn't hack the process of making albums, for love nor money. I don't know if you still stand by that (was having a deep trawl through the forum archives the other day), but on some level I do agree, and I think part of it boils down to the difficulty, as a band, of judging your own material...

Yeah I do stand by that. I love Pulp's albums (it'd be a bit weird of I didn't), but it seems like because an album is / can be a big statement, they often fell into the trap of second-guessing and overthinking, meaning that the unpolished raw material sometimes had a spark that the final products didn't. It's almost like there was some kernel of self-doubt that felt they somehow weren't quite good enough to be making records, so they kind of over-compensated in the recording process. And yep, in amongst all that, some great songs fell down the cracks.



-- Edited by Sturdy on Tuesday 18th of July 2023 12:35:19 PM

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SarahAWilson


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Pretty sure it was Mark who said that the tracklisting on TIH was a case of Jarvis's will overriding everyone else's common sense?

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Ian


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This is what Mark said about the title track:
I was never a very big fan of this song. I can appreciate that it's good work, but I never really liked it from the outset. Jarvis didn't want people to expect an album of Common People and Disco 2000. He wanted to redraw the boundaries, and recently it's been a case of Jarvis' will overriding everyone else's common sense.

I think that "I'm a Man" could have been a big hit but the only issue is that they really couldn't get it right live.

Another one that I've been thinking of is "Maureen". Granted, none of the 1980s singles ever had any hope of getting near the charts but it's a fantastic song. That said, I think that the Sudan Gerri version is better than the Ping Pong Jerry version.

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They couldn't get I'm A Man right in the studio either. All those trqcks of chugging, uninspiring guitar. Would like to hear the demo to see how it sounded (presumably) more stripped down.

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It's better at Glasto and Roskilde. "I'm a Man" needs to be quicker, brisk and snappy. The version on record is slightly too leaden and slow, and that makes it feel like it goes on too long (which stifles its ability to work well as a satirical statement). And it's also lacking in variation - it could do with the sort of bridge that "Party Hard" has; something to break up the song, and develop the themes just a little more.

There's a killer chorus in there. The song should be a knees-up, bitter, bile-flecked crowd-pleaser that the love band rattles off 2 or 3 songs into the set to build momentum, like Disco 2000 or Mis-Shapes.

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lipglossed


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Hmm, sorry for bumping this, but hmm...

Monday Morning. Has the whole package. Could've really made it up the charts. Probably more of a single than Sorted or FEELINGCALLEDLOVE.

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I thought of this but it does get a bit too noisy towards the end.

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