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Stephen


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The excellent website rateyourmusic.com allows users to give records marks out of 5. Because it's used by so many people, it's quite interesting to see what trends show. Also, each record - if it's good enough in the eyes of the readers - either gets put into a chart of the best of that year, and also the best overall. Here's how Pulp have done. I look forward to this provoking some discussion!

1. Different Class
Obviously. DC averages 4.03 out of 5 and came 4th for its year of release in 1995 (behind Radiohead, GZA and "Death"!). It was 236th overall.

2. His 'n' Hers
Likely to cause ructions on here, HnH scores a 3.91 and came 31st for its year (1207th overall). Second best? Hmm...contentious!

3. This is Hardcore
3.87 out of 5, so only just below HnH, TIH came 38th for its year, but far lower than HnH overall at being only the official 1630th best album ever.

4. Pulpintro
3.75 out of 5 is still pretty good, and it came 107th for its year (2817th overall).

5. We Love Life
Just sneaking into the top five, WLL scores 3.61 and came 270th for its year. It was not on the overall chart.

6. Jarvis (by Jarvis)
Solo album time as J by J scores 3.43 and gets to being 830th best album for the year it was released. That's pretty low.

7. Separations
There must be some 'haters' as 'Seppy' only scores 3.34, and comes 640th for 1992.

8. A Heavy Nite With...
Jarvis, Richard and Wayne get a 3.31, so only slightly behind Separations. This does not feature in the top 1,000 for its year of release.

9. Further Complications
I take umbrage at this as I do really like this album, but it only scores 3.21.

10. Freaks
Further disappointments here as Freaks only notches up a 3.19. It is, however, the 682nd best album of that year though, apparently!

11. It
3.03 ain't that bad for an album no-one seems to love, and it comes 811st for its year.



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fredthe3rd


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811th surely.

Liquid Swords by GZA (pronounced Jizza - no really) is a great album no doubt (considered by some to be one of the greatest rap albums ever - well, certainly in the last 40 years...) but better than Different Class... no.

How does the scoring work?

If only one person voted for an album but gave it five would that end up high in the chart because it has a perfect score?

If an album gets more votes does that mean it gets higher in the charts assuming they're not bad scores being given?

What's number one of all time?

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Stephen


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811th, yes.

Jizza. Sounds like one of your topic headers.

You give it a mark out of 5. It takes an average.

Fred, albums only enter the charts when they have a certain number of votes. I think it's around 30 or 40.

An album with 1,000 votes and a score of 3.68 will be below an album with 500 votes and a score of 3.69 as far as I'm aware.

OK Computer I think.

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Fran


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Can't we stick with the Bilbo Baggins style eighty-one-ty first??



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saw119


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I always preferred Only Built 4 Cuban Linx by Raekwon The Chef myself.

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fredthe3rd


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Check you out!

Did you google that or are you a genuine fan?

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saw119


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No, I am a genuine fan! It was the first Wu Tang album I bought back in '95.

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fredthe3rd


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Oh yeah you liked that Viktor Vaughn track I put on the producers thread didn't you? I can heartily recommend the album it came from: Vaudeville Villain.

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Eamonn


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There was rap more than forty years ago?

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fredthe3rd


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That was just a bit of fun. Like when magazines run polls of the best films of all time - but they're all from the last hundred years. Obviously.

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Fran


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I always find the NME lists are usually full of Pulp-love these days, here's another in this week's mag:

http://www.nme.com/news/various-artists/64427

This comes after being #1 song of the 90s and best thing at Coachella.



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Stephen


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Maybe someone should point out certain old NME reviews of Pulp material...

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Jazza


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yes, but they did put The Beach Boys 4th which somewhat undermines Pulp's position

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fredthe3rd


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Does it? Do you hate The Beach Boys?

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Stephen


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Jesus Christ, that's a bad list. Does anyone else find it odd btw that Ian Curtis' violent racist antics get brushed under the carpet, yet if any artist did similar (or, in Morrissey's case, they *decide* he's said similar) they get vilified? Odd.

That list looks like a Shine Comp gone wrong. So stodgy and dull. I mean...I *like* Good Vibrations, but it's hardly up *there* - certainly it's no God Only Knows. Likewise the Bowie choice. I think it's far from his best. And then all that dull, listless crap like Stone Roses and Oasis. Not a Smiths fan either, but I suppose I can see it's a decent song.

Mind you, I still remember Melody Maker declaring "Sgt. Pepper" to be the worst album of all time. "Of all time?" I thought, "Really?" In a world with a third Spice Girls album, a second Menswear album...Steps...oh dear...all this reminds me why I stopped reading the weeklies!


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Stephen


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Fred...I can see Jazza's point. I like the Beach Boys to an extent, but they really do lack the bite that makes music brilliant - to my ears. That said, I think God Only Knows is a beautiful song...but even then, I must confess that I prefer Bowie's early 80s version of same!

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Jazza


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The song is listenable and certainly above a lot of the crap on the radio now but it's hardly the forth best of all time

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fredthe3rd


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Fair enough. I wouldn't have placed it there either but I do like the song.

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fredthe3rd


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It's refreshing that The Beatles aren't number one but it seems bizarre that they're so low.

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Stephen


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I'd trust RateYourMusic more than the NME. And also, where NME says "Greatest songs" it means, with the exception of Day in the Life, "Greatest singles"

And here's RYM's "Greatest Singles". I still disagree with some of these, but they have been voted by more people, and it's nice to see Velvets, Lou Reed, 'Dock of the Bay' and similar on there at least. And Love, who so often get ignored.

1 The Beach Boys Wouldn't It Be Nice / God Only Knows
2 The Beatles Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever
3 David Bowie Life on Mars? / The Man Who Sold the World
4 The Smiths There Is a Light That Never Goes Out
5 Joy Division Love Will Tear Us Apart / These Days
6 Joy Division Atmosphere / She's Lost Control
7 The Beach Boys Good Vibrations
8 Jimi Hendrix Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) / Hey Joe / All Along the Watchtower
9 Bob Dylan Like a Rolling Stone
10 David Bowie "Heroes"
11 Otis Redding (Sittin' On) The Dock of the Bay
12 The Smiths How Soon Is Now?
13 Lou Reed Walk on the Wild Side / Perfect Day
14 The Velvet Underground Sunday Morning / Femme Fatale
15 The Rolling Stones Paint It, Black
16 Sam Cooke Shake
17 The Ronettes Be My Baby
18 Television Marquee Moon
19 Kate Bush Running Up That Hill
20 Love Alone Again Or

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fredthe3rd


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Be My Baby on both lists? Coincidence? Is it even the best Motown type song? I prefer Nowhere to Run.

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yankeehotelfoxtrot


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Nice to see Low so high in 1994. Might not have mentioned it but I like Low.

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Stephen


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There's a couple on both lists, Fred. I do adore Be My Baby. But I'm gonna be awkward and say my favourite version is a John Lennon version from the mid 70s. Drunk and pleading for his 'baby' with a full, shambolic Wall of Sound as produced by an out of control Phil Spector. Bombastic, desperate and heartfelt. Highly recommended!

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fredthe3rd


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That does sound quite appealing. My point though was that I didn't think it was THAT well known a song. Yeah I know everyone knows it, can't explain myself very well... Hopefully you get what I mean.

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Eamonn


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Stephen wrote:

Maybe someone should point out certain old NME reviews of Pulp material...

 

Different journalists, different opinions. Thank God. Which makes these polls pretty silly but they're harmless if taken as fun. Who could ever agree on the best song of the last 60 years, never mind a list of them?

I do wonder though, how often journalists reviewing albums for music publications get their editors reminding them that one of the big record labels have paid for a full page advertising said new album and wouldn't it be nice if a quote from your review was on it so even if it's shit pretend it isn't.



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Stephen


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Eamonn, I know that it's apparently next to impossible to get the NME to review a label's output if the label don't pay for advertising in said spread. This is where Filthy Little Angels (home of my fantastic self, as well as the Long Blondes for a time) ran into trouble. And I'm sure lots of others suffer similarly.

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weener


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I think they would get someone who might like it to review it? i dunno though

Stephen be my baby is one of my favourite songs (along with john paul young's love is in the air) but i don't know that lennon one, i will definitely look it up tomorrow

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Fran


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Stephen wrote:

Maybe someone should point out certain old NME reviews of Pulp material...

That's why I qualified my comment with "these days", though they did manage to make My Legendary Girlfriend single  of the week.  Has the association with buying advertising always been the same or is that a more recent phenomenon?



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Fran


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Stephen wrote:

Fred...I can see Jazza's point. I like the Beach Boys to an extent, but they really do lack the bite that makes music brilliant - to my ears. That said, I think God Only Knows is a beautiful song...but even then, I must confess that I prefer Bowie's early 80s version of same!

 This may be completely wrong, but I'm sure I've heard people discussing the imapct of the Beach Boys in the 60s as being very radical, but over a few decades, that is lost and they seem to younger generations like nice, pleasant middle of the road music. People more musically competent than me talk about their musical complexity. It's like the Sex Pistols being so scary to the the general establishment in 1977 they got banned from everywhere but now you're as likely to hear them on Radio 2 as anywhere. And don't forget the Beach Boys inspired the existence of Kraftwerk!

There seem to be a few hard-core indie bands beloved of the NME that I get the impression area bit marmite-y, they either changed your life or you don't really get them much at all. I quite like a few Smiths songs, but have never got whatever it is that inspires the devotion they get. I think maybe althoguh I appreciate Morrissey's lyrics, I don't find the vocal/melodic dimension captivating in the way that I do with Jarvis. Similarly, hearing lots of Stone Roses fans interviewed lately, the band seem to have defined a time of their life for them in a very profound way, but they completely passed me by at the time. Again, I quite like a few of their better known songs, but that's about it.



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yankeehotelfoxtrot


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I think the Beach Boys deserve all the recognition and credit they get if only for Pet Sounds. It really is one of the greatest albums ever put to tape. When I look at bands that have inspired other truly great bands they're right up there. I'd have to put them up there with Velvet Underground, Kraftwerk, Suicide, Leonard Cohen, Miles Davis, Serge Gainsbourg, Joy Division, Beastie Boys, The Ramones, Love etc... in terms of the influence and impact they had on music. Doesn't matter to me that they put out some garbage like Kokomo later on.

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yankeehotelfoxtrot


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Don't get me wrong, I prefer Pulp and lots of other bands but I think a lot of the shit that came along because they made it seem possible was so so so shit. Like Nirvana too, so much shit came from that even though they're a great thing.

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yankeehotelfoxtrot


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And there is no way that any Smiths song can be ranked above Will You Love Me Tomorrow by The Shirelles. It's just crazy. Anyway, I'm getting carried away at work here.

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