Seeing them at Hyde Park was quite surreal for me. Ive waited for that moment for 16 years so i didnt really realise they were here in front of me. But I wish i saw them in 95 or 98 coz those shows were unique, i guess. The time, the place, the atmosphere.... Seing the officially released videos seem like it...

but that doesnt answer the question.

They have never played better. I asked Mark when he did Plenty after the Toulouse gig, and he agreed that he thought they sounded better than remembered.

''Better'' in terms of how well they played the songs, banter, stage presence etc. I imagine the summer was as good as ever.

But 1991-onwards, leading up to the glory days, the sense of excitement as a fan (i.e. ArrGee) watching the group still ascending in terms of pop stardom...well that's obviously impossible to replicate.

The band 2011-stylee are as good as ever I would imagine (without having ever seen them in the '90s but watched/heard countless recordings over the last decade) but the sense of ocassion when giddy stratospheres are about to be entered for the first time...that's surely the best part of the lifecycle of a pop group, both for the artist and fan.

As such, people who were lucky enough to see them in the 1990's, particularly up to 1995, are probably, consciously or not, comparing that period of their more carefree youth and devotion to the band to now when everyone, even the band themselves have become older and more pressing thoughts have emerged - mortality, kids, hairloss, negative equity, how viable renewable energies really are. Or other stuff... I don't want to find out for a few years yet. 

-- Edited by Eamonn on Monday 5th of December 2011 02:13:56 AM

Eamonn,

Very interesting idea, but I think I have to disagree. Yes, it's easy to look back at the first round of gigs and associate them with nostalgia, but if you think about little things such as being very socially insecure amongst a crowd of people, only two of whom you know when just turned 16 at V96, or - for various reasons - ending up at Birmingham 1998 in the pouring rain with people you don't know, or - again - watching them along (in the rain!) at Leeds 2002, etc. I'd much rather have had this year's experiences. Y'know, actually being able to afford somewhere to stay, being able to afford to see the amount of gigs I wanted to, even just being able to get to London (somewhere I didn't make it to properly 'til after my last 'original' Pulp gig for example!)

The only sadness nostaglia aspect it provokes in me is in wishing I'd been into them when I was 12/13 or something and having joined Pulp People then. But that's unfeasible 'cos I didn't really listen to anything that wasn't made between about 1962 and 1969 back then. And I'd have had no way of hearing anything Pulp had to offer back then.

So yeah, 2011 all the way. Apart from for recorded output, obviously!

Stephen wrote:

---

... it's easy to look back at the first round of gigs and associate them with nostalgia.

---

Pulp were an exciting band on their way up.  The main reason was that pretty much everyone who went to the gigs were into the band and there weren't people turning up to spectate.   

And as they weren't that popular, you could get right to the front to see them, especially when they were only a support band.  The only other time I went to see the support was when The Libertines supported Supergrass and Morrissey in two separate gigs.

I enjoyed the Hyde Park and the Brixton gigs this year more than any post Common People gigs where a band that was quite personal were suddenly known by all.   In those 1995 and 2001 gigs, the people I went with weren't really into Pulp and ended up somewhat distant from the stage.

All that said, I've never been to a bad Pulp gig, the dozen of so I have attended would all rank in my top 20 gigs of all time.

On a more general note, arent you annoyed by more and more people turning up to gigs just to chat with their friends ? It's something i noticed the past few years, some dont even watch the gig they're at !

"It seems a large percentage of the audience would like to watch the concert through the medium of their smartphone as well!"

Personally I love this. I stand there and I think "It's a terrible shame you're not enjoying the gig. But I am. And I look forward to downloading your video from youtube later. Thank you, random person".

I don't take a camera to gigs anymore. It's far easier to let anonymous people do the donkeywork :)

 

 

Very interesting thread.

Re: people chatting to friends and watching through their Smartphone I thought some of this might be due to their playing festivals but then I know some said there was people at the Brixton gigs doing the same. Some people perhaps just go to gigs just so they can say they were there.

 

I did see them in 1996 but as I said before I was only a child so I often wish I was older so I could have partaken in everything more fully. I dont mean alcohol or anything like that I just mean that I could have purchased all the bargain reissue CDs I saw at the time, buy up every single magazine, record everything, watch that interview at 1am. I did partake as much as I could though. I even have two pictures from 1996 at The Point (their show was part of the Feile) but Jarvis is just a little blue dot in them.

 

It was very different to Electric Picnic this year 'in many ways'. I remember walking along the quays in 1996 and the teenagers and early twenty-somethings with their flares and tight fitting v neck Pulp t-shirts. The mid-90s was a bit '70s fashion wise. The girls in the mini bus waving a Jarvis poster out the window at those of us walking. Nice feeling of unity I suppose ;) Bawl, Super Furries and Cast were on before Pulp and Pulp cam on at approx 9.50pm. I wish I could say something about how they sounded musically but I can't remember except to say I loved it. Freek uploaded a file of this gig recently though I think so you can check it out there. I can say, however, that it was a specific time and place because it was Cool Britannia back then after all and I really thought music would be that way forever.

In the interim period I saw Jarvis at Electric Picnic in 2007. Great gig. close to the front and people shouting for 'I Spy'.

Electric Picnic 2011 - perhaps more '80s fashion wise, more doom and gloom around, economic recession, a different audience who I thought were perhaps seeing Pulp for the very first time and didn't know much about them but might have been compelled to check them out after it. I know I enjoyed it equally as much as the first time but I would have liked to see them at their own gig. Can't praise the intro enough, great banter, musically great. Loved it. Wish I had been older for the '90s though and would like to know what pre-1995 was like.

 

I have an iPhone, i love it, but i would never get it out and record the gig. I'd rather live the thing then record it and watch it later. I really don't get those people. It's like they're living in the future all the time. The present time isn't good enough anymore.

ArrGee wrote:

---

andy wrote:

---

On a more general note, arent you annoyed by more and more people turning up to gigs just to chat with their friends ? It's something i noticed the past few years, some dont even watch the gig they're at !

---

 It has always happened but is more noticable these days as gigs ain't as loud as they used to be.   At small venues when you are just there for a night out and the band are totally unknown, it's rare that anyone pays much attention.   I remember at university, pretty much every band that turned up was met with total indifference as people were only there to drink and pull.  However if you have forked out forty quid for a gig, it seems odd to just ignore it.

---

 Yeah i'm talking more about those kinda sold out gigs where, you should theorically have die hard fans only. 

Back to topic, Pulp 2011 was something, but i would have loved to attend one of those gigs where Jarvis goes up and down on the stairs and hugs those band members cartons... ah well, i still have the official DVD. 

I've taken my camera to all pulp concerts and still appreciated them fully. What's more I know have over 500 photos of them performing and over an hour of footage which I can keep forever - I don't think people filming is too bad but people not listening and talking during the performance is extremely irritating

-- Edited by Jazza on Tuesday 6th of December 2011 05:54:56 PM

I suppose now there's no point in searching for cameras because, unless you are going to confiscate everyone's mobile, there's no stopping people from filming or taking pictures

Jazza wrote:

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I suppose now there's no point in searching for cameras because, unless you are going to confiscate everyone's mobile, there's no stopping people from filming or taking pictures

---

 Morrissey confiscated my wife's brolly in August.  He owes us

anet wrote:

---

ArrGee wrote

---

 Morrissey confiscated my wife's brolly in August.  He owes us

---

 Was it being used to conceal any meat products?

Having seen Pulp several times in the 90's/early 2000's, and then 3 times this year, I would say they are easily as good this time round.  And I don't think anything will ever top the excitement of making my way to Wireless knowing I was going to see Pulp again after nearly 9 years of waiting and pretty much giving up hope.

As for people chatting at gigs, I got so annoyed once that I tapped a complete stranger on the shoulder and told him if he was going to talk then he should stand behind me and do it, and then sort of 'pushed' him out the way.  Bit ott maybe, but it was one of my favourite songs he was spoiling, and you don't expect it down the front.  Anyway, it worked and he didn't argue. 

---

 

anet wrote:

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Aargh! Saw119's pork chop comment hadn't been posted yet when I started typing the above meat-products comment. Honest!

---

 I think we both know Morrissey's pecadillo's a little too well! Have you seen that pic of him at the Monterey show, looking good. Pity the new material isn't up to much.

People are the same everywhere, Action is my middle name, Kids a looker, Art-Hounds, Scandinavia. The songs he's been doing on tour and on that terrible Janice Long session. Scandinavia ain't too bad I suppose.

http://www.mediafire.com/?zzmya7kmy80am35

There you go anet, anything for you. Check out Scandinavia on youtube.

anet wrote:

---

saw119 wrote:

---

anet wrote:

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Aargh! Saw119's pork chop comment hadn't been posted yet when I started typing the above meat-products comment. Honest!

---

 I think we both know Morrissey's pecadillo's a little too well! Have you seen that pic of him at the Monterey show, looking good. Pity the new material isn't up to much.

---

I worship the ground that Morrissey walks upon, hence feel a little embarrassed at having to ask you 'WHAT NEW MATERIAL????' 

---

 

Would you agree that he hasn't done anything to top Life is a Pigsty and probably never will?

I wouldn't really agree with "always changed line-up". Between 1988 and 1997 they gained one member! I think the extent to which they changed between Russell's era and Mark's era shows how you can't just chop and change Pulp members and expect it to still be Pulp. The Pulp I saw between 1998 and 2002 wasn't the same Pulp I saw in 1996 or repeatedly this year. Everything felt different.

Stephen wrote:

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I wouldn't really agree with "always changed line-up". Between 1988 and 1997 they gained one member! I think the extent to which they changed between Russell's era and Mark's era shows how you can't just chop and change Pulp members and expect it to still be Pulp. The Pulp I saw between 1998 and 2002 wasn't the same Pulp I saw in 1996 or repeatedly this year. Everything felt different.

---

Nick would be in

Candida would be in

Steve would be in

Jarv would be in

Get someone who can play some interesting guitar.

I WANT the band to change.

thomas_bland wrote:

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Stephen wrote:

---

I wouldn't really agree with "always changed line-up". Between 1988 and 1997 they gained one member! I think the extent to which they changed between Russell's era and Mark's era shows how you can't just chop and change Pulp members and expect it to still be Pulp. The Pulp I saw between 1998 and 2002 wasn't the same Pulp I saw in 1996 or repeatedly this year. Everything felt different.

---

Nick would be in

Candida would be in

Steve would be in

Jarv would be in

Get someone who can play some interesting guitar.

I WANT the band to change.

---

 

Yeah no direspect to mark or even Russell, but if the other four wanna carry on, it's Pulp to me. Why not a Pulp record with Richard Hawley...

Well if Candida cant do it they can still carry on. Like someone said before Pulp had a lot of members coming and going in the past decades so that's no unnatural for them. As long as Jarvis is involved, it's Pulp really, again no disrespect to the others.

I wouldnt mind a line up like that

Jarvis
Steve
Nick
Mark on keyboards
Richard Hawley on guitar

What's up with Candida, is she ill ?

Andy, if you've seen the shows, you'll probably have noticed Candida. She suffers very badly with arthritis, walks very slowly and seems to have trouble playing the keyboards, even (take a look at how she has to hold her hands nowadays).

I can't imagine that a Jarvis/Steve/Mark/Nick/Richard band would be much different to a cross between the lesser We Love Life rock tracks and the Jarvis solo stuff that most people seem quite keen to slag off.

I think the trouble with Pulp without Russell is that they came so very close to sounding like Just Another Band. By having the violinist who couldn't play guitar like other early/mid 90s lead guitarists made them something so much different. But with an ace guitarist, they became so much duller, I think. The fun had gone.

And that fun is what we got with the 2011 shows that had been missing for such a long time.

saw119 wrote:

---

ArrGee wrote:

---

 Morrissey confiscated my wife's brolly in August.  He owes us

---

 Was she concealing a sneaky pork chop within its folds?

---

No, she's meat free as well.  It's just Morrissey has a list of items none shall enter with which oddly includes brollies.  Maybe someone chucked one at him at one point.  Bit ridiculous as we were in the circle.

Stephen wrote:

---

... the trouble with Pulp without Russell is that they came so very close to sounding like Just Another Band. By having the violinist who couldn't play guitar like other early/mid 90s lead guitarists made them something so much different. But with an ace guitarist, they became so much duller, I think. The fun had gone.

---

 +1

Never seemed quite right not having Russell on stage when I saw them in 2001.   Keyboards and violins are so Pulp

ArrGee wrote:

---

Stephen wrote:

---

... the trouble with Pulp without Russell is that they came so very close to sounding like Just Another Band. By having the violinist who couldn't play guitar like other early/mid 90s lead guitarists made them something so much different. But with an ace guitarist, they became so much duller, I think. The fun had gone.

---

 +1

Never seemed quite right not having Russell on stage when I saw them in 2001.   Keyboards and violins are so Pulp

---

It's all about opinions i guess: TIH has no Russell on it and it's my fav Pulp record by far. To me Pulp is the songs, that no other band could write, and Jarvis' unique style. If you got those two ingredients, then you got Pulp. Jarvis solo had elements of that, but the songs are really different, maybe because the writer is Jarvis only and not the band.

I agree with you Stephen. Russell is intrinsic to the Pulp sound that I first fell in love with and still love the most now. The violin element was so unusual and individual and I've always thrived on unusual sounds.

Yeah the band is crucial to the songs. I dont think Jarvis could ever write a song like This is Hardcore alone.

But to me, the violin ear of Pulp is over, it's kinda like wanting to live the past to want it back. Those songs, those arrangements were amazing, but the almost compulsory violin would kinda hold them back in a way now i think. That's why i particularly love TIH, because it was a step in the right (unknown) direction. WLL had all the songs to be amazing too but they chose the wrong ones. I dont really miss the violin sound, but i'm glad it exists. Now if Pulp reunited, it would be good to try something new, not go back to 97 when Russell left. He's left a big hole in the band and they managed to fill it, using the guitars and they keyboards differently.

And I dont agree that I'm A Man and the songs you mentionned Stephen, sound like anyone else (or point those bands now ! :D). TIH is unique in sound, in style and in songwriting. As was Different Class, as was His n Hers. But i'm feeling i'm being the only TIH Pulp freak on here.

 

A good point was made about Jarvis reminding the crowd to shout Pulp not Jarvis at the gigs during the summer. I thought that was great when he did that on the televised Reading slot.

Pulp have had so many different incarnations and I know if I had to choose a period I would choose from Separations to Different Class. I too found Russell a crucial element even though one might argue he was not a technically good musician, he was a good musician nonetheless in a very special and uncommon way. I loved how there was a then current picture of Russell in the Hits CD in 2002 even though he had been gone 5 years at that stage. I know he had obviously been involved with many of the songs.

Ill add though that I think theyre all vital in their own way. I love This is Hardcore and We Love Life too though. I know if any of them were absent Id miss them. Really good to see them all again in 2011.

Miner's Strike is typically the kinda song bands gotta do for best of, and generally, it doesnt come out well. As for the political side of things, i agree, i think Jarvis should stay away from it as far as possible. I hate Running the world with passion, plus it's a shit tune. society commentary: good, politics commentary: bad.

But as for Jarvis not helping them at the time: who was he really to do anything ? i dont know the subject enough to comment on that though.

Argee: My wife was @ Koko and she loved it. ;)

But as for Jarvis not helping them at the time: who was he really to do anything ? i dont know the subject enough to comment on that though.

---

Living in Sheffield at the time it was very frowned upon to not help the plight of the miners. I was only a kid but there were always collections and benefits, sympathy strikes. Some of the stuff in Last Day is very gauche but quite affecting too. You must remember that the local council and people of Sheffield were essentially cut off from the rest of the country. Completely isolated as the NUM had it's headquarters here, the town hall used to fly the Red Flag and the Internationale was sung at council meetings, places dont get more radical than the Socialist Republic of Southg Yorkshire during those years and Thatcher broke us.

Stephen wrote:

---

I always found Russell's inclusion with 'Hits' a bit odd, especially given how it automatically seems to imply he was ok with 'Last Day of the Miner's Strike'. Not sure whether I'm alone or not in thinking this song even worse than 'Silence'. I just think it's the perfect example of non-pop straining-to-be-epic AOR trudging dad-rock that they seemed so keen on during their last years. It doesn't even have the saving grace of a good lyric. I really do cringe when Jarvis begins to think about politics. I wonder how Russell, a former flying picket, lest we not forget, felt about Jarvis going on about the miners when he'd done nothing to help them at the time?

I wonder whether an invite was given to Russell to help out on this 'last' Pulp track. Or whether he was played a demo and asked did he want to contribute...?

---

 

As much as I love Russell, crikey Stephen you're in danger of sounding like his PR! Not all of his contribution to Pulp was great you know!

For all his uniqueness I imagine he could be a pain in the arse to be in the same band with at times, his wilfully awkward (at times) nature and I'm sure he rendered many rehearsals redundant over the years with his out of tunings on the violin.

And regardless of his non-involvement on LDOTMS (which imo, is pretty great when I'm in the right mood to listen to it) almost half of 'Hits' has his own personal stamp on it so had he not been included on the cover and gone along to the photo session for the CD sleeve it would have been far odder and a bit sad.

-- Edited by Eamonn on Friday 9th of December 2011 06:35:27 PM

Eamonn. Point taken. I just love the eccentrics who are in great pop bands. Similarly Viv Stanshall. And the awkward ones in pop bands. Like George Harrison. Russell covers both bases.

I bet Russell was an absolute pain in the arse to be in the band with up to about 1990, but I think when Steve arrived and Jarvis finished his course, the balance was very much shifted away from Russell as Jarvis' '2nd in command' and he was able to order people around less. After that I imagine Russell was just more grumpy and more awkward, but without the power he'd previously had.

How about that, an exclusive interview in February... hmmmmmmmm !

(why not now?)

 

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM !!

-- Edited by andy on Sunday 11th of December 2011 07:35:59 AM

does that mean that the reunion will have finished by February?

andy wrote:

---

nah more probably an announcement in this interview: tour, new album, whatever. but it's weird to hold it till feb since it's already written and all.

---

 Well, perhaps but it's hardly a high profile publication in which to make such an announcement is it? The guy who writes the fanzine, presumably, is simply waiting till his next issue comes out. Maybe he produces an old style 'staples 'n' paper' fanzine and his next issue simply ain't out till Feb next year! Listen to Jarvis Cockers Zine Scene if anyone doesn't know what a fanzine is.

saw119 wrote:

---

andy wrote:

---

nah more probably an announcement in this interview: tour, new album, whatever. but it's weird to hold it till feb since it's already written and all.

---

 Well, perhaps but it's hardly a high profile publication in which to make such an announcement is it? The guy who writes the fanzine, presumably, is simply waiting till his next issue comes out. Maybe he produces an old style 'staples 'n' paper' fanzine and his next issue simply ain't out till Feb next year! Listen to Jarvis Cockers Zine Scene if anyone doesn't know what a fanzine is.

---

 I don't think that whatever it is will be annonced via the fanzine, but whatever it is will be annonced at a later date and they can't take risks on it being leeked. Also, if you look at the blog archieve it seems to be updated several times a month so I doubt that the next issue is in Feb.

In that Rhubarb blog he says:

"It was the Jarvis of Deep Fried In Kelvin and Inside Susan honed down to a white hot razor of indignation and exasperation. The music was heavy, emotionally heavy. Most of their work had light and dark, moments of wit and sarcasm amongst the dissections of ordinary peoples lives, yet The Sisters EP was what I wanted; for them to push that darker side even further with no submissions, no backing out, no joke at the end to lighten the mood. That it was wrapped in a perfect pop package made it all the better. Genius."

Not sure if I've been listening to a different Sisters EP... I agree with him that its great but it does have humour and it's not all that heavy (especially if you listen to it after Masters...)

the fact it's not coming out till feb means there's an embargo... i know it sounds wanky but so much stuff comes through to me and my colleagues saying ' embargoed till whenever etc'

most of the stuff that comes to me and my colleagues is shit, obviously..

anyway, he's got an interview on the promise of him not printing anything. i know it's a fanzine and it's not like anyone will stop advertising with the 'company' for printing early but as he's a fan he's clearly promised (or is he a she, i can't remember)

this bleathering post is trying to say.... big news to come i think

but i've been out on a department lunch so guess what i'm not sober. so feel free to ignore me

I dunno...reading the article it looked like he was willing to do the fanzine interview even before the reunion but the band's embargo on press meant he couldn't go through with it.
Russell has in the past taken a keen interest in fanzine culture, both in and before his Pulp days, so it would make sense if he only wants to give an interview to something low-key and non PR but full of passion. In other words it doesn't necessarily have to tie-in with Pulp-related news. But we'll see I suppose. Just don't want to get my hopes up for nowt.

Holden wrote:

---

Wow, what's with all the Russell hate? 

---

 

There is none.

I think most people on here love him, just some more than others.

The kazoo is probably on another album of bird sounds he's done for the National Trust or summat.

I dont think anyone hate Russell. I love the guy and his stage presence.



So i did my Sherlock a little: here's what i found
___________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/yorkshiremusiccollective/blog/527097115

YMC: How often will it be coming out?

The aim is every three months, one for each season of the year. This is something we know we can manage without flogging ourselves to death trying to keep up with the workload. We'd like to go for it more often, but we would need more contributors onboard I think to make this viable (so if you want to write for us, drop us a line!)

___________________________________________

If their last issue was in the fall (september / october) then it makes sense the next one is in february. Slightly less good news then. But the fact the Russell pushed back the interview for almost a year is weird. It could also fall in the category of the "no interview" strategy. They seem to post inteviews from their fanzine online too.

Theories:
- Pulp will be no more after their gigs next year, and Russell explains why
- Russell explains why he took part in the 2011 gigs and didnt go on with the reunion in 2012 (why is he not at the private gig)
- Russell talks about the reunion and future plans (album... etc)

I'd say there's still strong hope though:
- private gig,
- rumored tour next spring,
- Fire releases pushed back in february with 2 albums added though it was written few weeks ago on their website the releases of Freaks and Separations would be delayed in mid-late 2012 (Band request to make room for a new pulp record ?)
- girl talking about Jarvis recording...

too many "news" for a band that's only planning a couple of gigs i'd say.

Bort wrote:

---

 

Do you really think that if they were just doing a few gigs in the spring that they would be in the US? Want it so much, but I am extremely doubtful :(

---

 

Well that's what is weird for me since the beginning. As i previously said, it cost too much to hire a full crew just for two gigs... in the US nonetheless, which is not really where their fan base is.

I had a contact with Jarvis solo label here i'll try and know though i doubt they'll tell me anything.

andy wrote:

---

I dont think anyone hate Russell. I love the guy and his stage presence.



So i did my Sherlock a little: here's what i found
___________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/yorkshiremusiccollective/blog/527097115

YMC: How often will it be coming out?

---

 sorry!  when i think fanzines i think of all the ones that would grace your record shop counter in the 80s and 90s, all black and white photocopies and bad desk top publishing haha, this one must be more sophisticated!

 

Pulp isnt on the rumored Coachella line up by the way

http://underthegunreview.net/2011/11/29/rumored-leaked-lineup-for-coachella-2012/

andy wrote:

---

Pulp isnt on the rumored Coachella line up by the way

http://underthegunreview.net/2011/11/29/rumored-leaked-lineup-for-coachella-2012/

---

Hahahaha, oh man. Good thing that's just the laziest of journalism and not an actual scoop. Every year, fans make their own wishlist/prediction lineup posters and post them to the official board. Here are some that were out months ago:

http://consequenceofsound.net/2011/07/and-we-now-have-our-first-coachella-2012-fake-posters/

What makes this one so prevalent is someone actually tried to make his especially poorly made poster (wrong font, many serious billing issues, several acts have other announced gigs during these days such as the naked and famous who are listed as playing twice) a hoax instead of a silly diversion by emailing it to a few dodgy gossip sites claiming to be an insider until someone ran with it. In 2009, a week before the actual lineup, someone posted a random list of acts to the messageboard and Ryan Seacrest ran with it as a leak.

Good question. In 2007, Jarvis Cocker played and was the 5th highest billed artist of the day, even higher than Sonic Youth and DJ Shadow, and there was 50 minutes of downtime scheduled on the main stage while he played the second. Had a big crowd, too. But the last two times the fest seemed to have a demographic shift, with a larger proportion of 12-18 year olds that only bought tickets (or sneaked in) for the trendy, indistinguishable synthpop acts and the cheesy, overblown DJ's.

Radiohead is a lock, and I imagine someone special will be playing before them, so it can at least come close to matching the craziness of having the Pixies play before them back in 2004.

-- Edited by Bort on Wednesday 14th of December 2011 08:05:58 PM

Nice to see Mark in a sensible jumper there. His Mum would be proud.