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andy


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lipglossed wrote:

PTA is ironic, true. But it's still a bit uncomfortable to listen to, which is probably intentional I guess?

Not sure I'd call Running the World any more abstract than Cocaine Socialism, it seems pretty direct to me! Love the immortal "shit floats" lyric.

Big Julie I agree with you on. I think that one falls closer to Inside Susan than it does to PTA.

 

Well RTW was a global dig at our leaders, while CS was just directed at Labour in England (although that could extend to all "socialists" around the world really), that's why i think its more abstract. 

CS refers to a specific moment that happened to Jarvis. 

 

PTA never made me umconfortable but english is not my birth language, so lyrics tend to act as instruments first. When i was 15 it was just a guy who tried to have sex, no more. Now it rings differently.



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Sleeve


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yes, same with me- I just thought it was like a dodgy Grange Hill or Rita Sue and Bob Too scenario. Now it definitely feels darker and is horrible really but there's always been a bleak and uncomfortable angle to Jarv's lyrics- the sentiment of I Spy is nastier than anything on Freaks for example. There's some great sounds on PTA though- the chiming guitar and one of the last appearances of the Stylophone 350s (its last stand is Monday Morning as I remember)- they obviously put a lot of work into it. It feels like a bit of a relative to Stacks to me. Bit of a divisive song now it seems, but it always seemed to be fairly popular previously.

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Eamonn


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Yeah, musically it's arguably the last example of them having fun in the studio with cheap instruments, (or just cheap sounds) and leaning-in on what some would call their kitsch qualities (I know they hated being tagged with that term). Stacks is a good reference point - both have an impishness in the arrangement which in turn may have fuelled the lyrics.

It was to be more guitars and piano (occasionally) to the fore from thereon. Less silly synths, less violins, less fun... - but can't you see, they were professionals.

 

 



-- Edited by Eamonn on Saturday 2nd of December 2023 01:01:13 PM

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Sleeve


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Haha, very true.

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lipglossed


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andy wrote:
lipglossed wrote:

PTA is ironic, true. But it's still a bit uncomfortable to listen to, which is probably intentional I guess?

Not sure I'd call Running the World any more abstract than Cocaine Socialism, it seems pretty direct to me! Love the immortal "shit floats" lyric.

Big Julie I agree with you on. I think that one falls closer to Inside Susan than it does to PTA.

 

Well RTW was a global dig at our leaders, while CS was just directed at Labour in England (although that could extend to all "socialists" around the world really), that's why i think its more abstract. 

CS refers to a specific moment that happened to Jarvis. 

 

 For me, RTW being a global dig makes it more universal and therefore more immediately accessible. I think it's more direct than Cocaine Socialism really.



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andy


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lipglossed wrote:
andy wrote:
lipglossed wrote:

PTA is ironic, true. But it's still a bit uncomfortable to listen to, which is probably intentional I guess?

Not sure I'd call Running the World any more abstract than Cocaine Socialism, it seems pretty direct to me! Love the immortal "shit floats" lyric.

Big Julie I agree with you on. I think that one falls closer to Inside Susan than it does to PTA.

 

Well RTW was a global dig at our leaders, while CS was just directed at Labour in England (although that could extend to all "socialists" around the world really), that's why i think its more abstract. 

CS refers to a specific moment that happened to Jarvis. 

 

 For me, RTW being a global dig makes it more universal and therefore more immediately accessible. I think it's more direct than Cocaine Socialism really.

 

Its more universal true, maybe more appropriate word than abstract. That's what i mean, it can apply to any politician.

but CS could have had a bigger impact if it had been released as a single, as it was apparently planned... imagine a big britpop band dissing the labour in 98. 

Was there any pressure from the label not to release it ? Do we know anything about that ?



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Ian


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Jarvis' comments:

"Before Tony Blair got elected they kept ringing me up and asking me if I could count on their support, which I didn't like. This song Cocaine Socialism came to me one night around that time, in the Groucho Club, when everyone was off their heads from snorting loads of coke. They were probably going to vote Labour, myself included. But it wasn't even champagne socialism any more, it was cocaine socialism and where do socialist principles fit into the most egotistical drug that makes you not give a shit about anyone else? You don't even want to listen to anyone else talk. But I bottled it in the end and rewrote it as Glory Days, which was about nothing really."

"Maybe - I tried to write about things that were going on. I was very aware that, after spending the '80s out of touch, and then suddenly breaking through, it was our time to be involved with the culture of the time, and I wanted to comment on that. The song, "Cocaine Socialism", is a kind of case in point.

It got replaced by "Glory Days" on ...Hardcore.
It did. I just copped out really. It was a weird thing. It was probably complete rampant egotism on my part. Because the song was written before Tony Blair got in, and in my rampant egotistic state I thought,'Oh, I don't want to put people off voting Labour - I would like them to, really.' In retrospect, we should have just been bold and put it out, because the way things turned out, it was pretty..."

Also, Nick talks about it in Truth and Beauty.

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andy


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Thanx Ian

Still Crazy to think they went all that way to record that song twice. And Jarvis sudden change of heart, after putting so much effort into the recording of the song.

It's unique in music history i think, and both songs are phenomenal.

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Eamonn


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I'm kinda glad they didn't put it out as a single in '97. It would have felt too gimmicky, boxed them in as both a political and ironic band by the public and I don't think Jarvis had the stomach for that. And I can understand them being tentative about the music being so close to Common People too. "Glory People" live was a clever acknowledgement of that.

It's a bit like We Can Dance Again. Could have been an interim single between HnH and DC. Great tune, great fun but it's a bit too much of a self-parody and they seemed to realise that. I don't think it would have aged well and might have stepped on the toes of Common People as the titanic single with which to launch Different Class

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PaulTMA


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I like everything about Ansaphone, except for that mute trumpet preset synth. Not a great sound.

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Sleeve


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gotta agree there. That always baffled me!

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andy


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PaulTMA wrote:

I like everything about Ansaphone, except for that mute trumpet preset synth. Not a great sound.

 

Well i always loved it. So weird, so Pulp. biggrin



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andy


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Eamonn wrote:

I'm kinda glad they didn't put it out as a single in '97. It would have felt too gimmicky, boxed them in as both a political and ironic band by the public and I don't think Jarvis had the stomach for that. And I can understand them being tentative about the music being so close to Common People too. "Glory People" live was a clever acknowledgement of that.

It's a bit like We Can Dance Again. Could have been an interim single between HnH and DC. Great tune, great fun but it's a bit too much of a self-parody and they seemed to realise that. I don't think it would have aged well and might have stepped on the toes of Common People as the titanic single with which to launch Different Class

 

Well we are back to that C/F/G thingy... Most of Jarvis song are built around those chords so there's bound to be similarities. But I never felt Common People and Glory Days were that similar because Glory days also use a minor chord which gives it a more melancholic tone. 

But yeah i'm glad they released weirder stuff as singles. It completely killed their career, but that This is Hardcore video... i mean, what a gem. Help the Aged is also very WTF. the whole TIH imagery is pretty fantastic. 

As for We Can dance Again. To me it was a mistake not to release it. It could have been a one-off single or even a bside. When you have a good to great song, its a crime not to record it properly and release it for eternity. Same applies to some unreleased tracks from HnH or WLL demos.... it's just a waste. When the "time" for that music has passed, its impossible to recapture the sound of the "time". See: After You. 



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PaulTMA


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I'm going to suppose that they chose not to record a DC session version of We Can Dance Again was because of the worry that the label would demand it be a single, and they'd already soured on it. So they might have wanted to bury it a bit. It is quite unusual how for a short while it appeared to be their shot at a comeback single. I remember hearing Common People live from Aston Villia on the radio and not thinking it particularly sounded like a huge smash to my ears at the time.... lol.

The similarity between Glory Days and Common People for me is apparent mainly during the instrumental section. It's easy to imagine Common People being sung over the top of it, or I always thought so anyway.



-- Edited by PaulTMA on Monday 4th of December 2023 02:33:12 PM

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Pye


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I really wanted Jarv..Is to perform We Can Dance again in the first concerts after the Covid lockdowns- maybe with slightly reworked lyrics- could have been good as I think the live Pulp recordings we have, it sounds great to me, very energetic.. Pulp actually preferred it live and couldnt get it quite right in the studio (from memory- I could be wrong) hence why it never made it onto any albums/ b sides

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Simply Fuss Free


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Wading into this debate because... well... boredom, post-work pints and a long commute home.

The official version of "Ansaphone" is tremendous. I don't care about chord progressions; Pulp has never been a muso band and I think if you are looking for unique compositions you should probably look elsewhere. Ansaphone has passion and drive and says something rich and profound about human longing in a very simple and accessible away. Its delightfully unpretentious, and I am an expert on pretention so I know. Unfortunately its become terribly dated, owing to the fact nobody uses their phones anymore except to call their mum and type bullocks like this. The demo is what it is: an draft sketch of the Mona Lisa. (Thematic and musical similarities to ELO's "Calling America" and "Telephone Line" duly noted and assumed intentional, to its credit).


Cocaine Socialism is good lyrics looking for a tune. Glory Days is the better song, and I reckon among TIH's finest moments. Listened to within the context of the whole album (as I firmly beleive TIH is best enjoyed as a whole, rather than its individual parts) I always think of Glory Days as the morning light breaking on the long dark night of the soul. Lyrically, along with Day After... it signals that the protagonist of this story, be it Jarvis, his alter ego, or the listener themself is going to make it, they aren't going to give up the ghost, not just yet. And I fucking love that about the album. It's oddly life affirming and it's done me a bit of good, personally, over the years. And I wouldn't trade that for the topicality of Cocaine Socialism, even if they  managed to figure the arrangements out.

Anyway my train is pulling into the station, which isn't a metaphor. So I shall conclude my rant right here. Thanks for reading. See you in Edinburgh and happy hols.



-- Edited by Simply Fuss Free on Tuesday 5th of December 2023 07:34:35 PM

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Simply Fuss Free


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Damn I forgot to weigh in on "We Can Dance Again". I knew I forgot something.

I think we have all heard the same recording of that singular live performance from '94, complete with tape hiss and audiences loosing their stools. It's bloody great. I wore my c-90 out rewinding and replaying that particular song, dreaming of the day we'd get to hear it proper.

But the thing that made that performance so good was the DRIVING BASS, which, intentionally or not, ABSOLUTELY DOMINATED that recording. Maybe the Taper responsible was standing too near to the subwoofer, or maybe that's all that remained on my copy of a copy of a copy of a copy in the foggy days of analog. I don't know! But to these ears, which tried desperately to understand what I was hearing, it sounded fucking ace.

The demo version that eventually found its way into our hands on DC Luxe just couldn't compare. It sounded so slight in contrast to the song I had half-imagined on that old cassette tape. It's a good song but not a good cut. It deserved better, and they needed to turn the bass way up.

I have the Chevette cover on vinyl, and it's one of my most prized possessions. I prefer it to Pulp's demo version, and it's Chevette that I reach for when I am in the mood to dance again.

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Sleeve


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It's a very nice EP- great sleeve. I like Formula One's song a lot too.

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Eamonn


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Re the bass to WCDA - isn't it "Love Is In The Air"?! And the start of the chorus melody the same as the chorus theme to Blakes' 7 (although, no more of a steal than Gloria 2000)... but maybe copyright was the main thing that stopped them pursuing this song in the studio...!

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andy


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Eamonn wrote:

Re the bass to WCDA - isn't it "Love Is In The Air"?! And the start of the chorus melody the same as the chorus theme to Blakes' 7 (although, no more of a steal than Gloria 2000)... but maybe copyright was the main thing that stopped them pursuing this song in the studio...!

 

I dont think it would have been enough for a copyright issue. Experts that decide whether there's a lawsuit here and there look for melody, production but also the spirit on a song. Those meldoy bits are maybe too short to make a case. The bass line is a simple beat, i dont think it can be attacked. 



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Sleeve


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I don't think anyone would've been too bothered.

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lipglossed


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Pye wrote:

I really wanted Jarv..Is to perform We Can Dance again in the first concerts after the Covid lockdowns- maybe with slightly reworked lyrics- could have been good as I think the live Pulp recordings we have, it sounds great to me, very energetic.. Pulp actually preferred it live and couldnt get it quite right in the studio (from memory- I could be wrong) hence why it never made it onto any albums/ b sides

 WCDA is a very sort of Jarv...Is song, isn't it?

It'd be nice if they did an EP of re-recorded lost classics. 



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Pye


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lipglossed wrote:
Pye wrote:

I really wanted Jarv..Is to perform We Can Dance again in the first concerts after the Covid lockdowns- maybe with slightly reworked lyrics- could have been good as I think the live Pulp recordings we have, it sounds great to me, very energetic.. Pulp actually preferred it live and couldnt get it quite right in the studio (from memory- I could be wrong) hence why it never made it onto any albums/ b sides

 WCDA is a very sort of Jarv...Is song, isn't it?

It'd be nice if they did an EP of re-recorded lost classics. 

 A JarvIs bass heavy version similar to the Chevette version would be amazing



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