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Post Info TOPIC: If it was up to you what Pulp released as singles, what would you change?
Ian


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If it was up to you what Pulp released as singles, what would you change?
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Ok, so I'm sat here pretty drunk listening to Pulp thinking about what they released as singles.

I would have kept "My Lighthouse" as the first single. I can't think of any other reason why but it has always been their first single and I wouldn't change it. However, I would have done away with the shower of shite that is "Everybody's Problem" and released "In Many Ways" as a single instead.

"Little Girl (With Blue Eyes)", "Dogs are Everywhere" and "They Suffocate at Night", I wouldn't change. I may be in a minority of one here but I think "Master of the Universe" was a good choice for a single... I'd have swapped "Silence" for "Take You Back" though.

Again, I may be a minority here but I think "Death II" would have made a better single than "My Legendary Girlfriend".

I can't argue with anything they released from "Countdown" to "Something Changed"...

...then we get to the "This is Hardcore" singles. I would have gone with "Northern Souls / Cocaine Socialism" as the first single, the obvious number 1 comeback single. So if Jarvis wanted his porn-obsessed lyrics in the charts, why not let him? I'd have gone for "This is Hardcore" and "Party Hard" as a double A-side; that way, the lyrics of "This is Hardcore" would have still been in the charts but there would have been an alternative track to get the airplay. I'd have then gone for "I'm a Man" then "Help The Aged".

As for "We Love Life", I'd have released "Sunrise" as a single to bridge the gap between the two albums. I'd have gone for "Weeds" as the first single off the album, then "Bad Cover Version" then if they'd released anything else, it would have to be "The Night that Minnie Timperley Died".

It would be interesting to hear what you would have released if it was up to you.


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Eamonn


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If it was up to you what Pulp released as singles, what would you change?
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Hmm, interesting topic and interesting choices Ian.

First off I agree with you about the run from Gift to Something Changed - what a succession of quality singles. Off-kilter pop, indie anthems, glamp-rock stompers, ending with a gorgeous ballad. Not sure there are many artists who can compare.

Don't know what I'd change from the wilderness years - Maureen should definitey have been a single at some point, how it wasn't even released is...yeah.
Death Comes To Town and Rattlesnakes would have been their first great single, the latter should at least have been on Separations, I think it's one of the best songs they ever wrote. Maybe it's the uber-fan in me that sees the potential in songs tragically unreleased when in reality they would have barely made a dent in the charts, who knows?

From the songs that were recorded for albums, EPs and singles in the 80's, I don't think the choices to promote the band on the radio were really wrong, none of their output (the aforementioned Maureen possibly excepted) would have fared better. Jarvis admitted it as much in an interview in Mojo, none of those songs ever stood a chance of getting good airplay because they were awkward, dour and cheaply recorded. Pulp were still learning how to write intelligent, glorious pop songs - working on their craft that they realised in full dazzling glory during the 90's.

Just one minor change to the glory days - yes it probably would have sounded dated and maybe a bit of a parody in hindsight, but We Can Dance Again, released between His'n'Hers and Common People would have been their first top ten.

So that leaves Hardcore and We Love Life. Help The Aged was a downbeat comeback but it was an important statement on Jarvis' mood. The chorus should have helped it fare better in the charts because it has a good hook (I know the single was top ten, but that would have been their then huge fanbase buying Pulp's first release in 18 months. It never really crossed over and quickly disappeared). I think the problem is the verses are so stark with little in the way of melody and people's short attention span meant they probably switched off when the chorus hit.

The thing is I'm not sure what you'd replace it with. Party Hard was probably the most commercial song on TIH, maybe that. Brash, a bit strange sounding, loud but exciting.

Releasing Cocaine Socialism as an interim single during the '97 election would have been interesting but clever though the lyrics are, I don't think the music is strong enough. Had it been released as a single I think it might have ended-up embarassing the band in later years. I far actually prefer the lyrics and arrangement on Glory Days.

I kinda like your idea of This Is Hardcore as a double A-side with Party Hard. In no way is TIH a single, getting to number 12 was again down to the reason given for Help The Aged, I think Sturdy's book mentions it didn't get much airplay. Still, the sight of them playing it on TOTP, to paraphrase the bloke from acrylicafternoons.com, ''in a studio full of kids is wonderfully subversive''. That song needed to be heard - it's the most ambitious, epic and wonderful thing they ever did and I'm glad it made some impact on the public consciousness.

I would have chosen Sylvia over A Little Soul. The latter has brevity and a nice, (if a bit too maulin) tune (it won a Novello award didn't it?) but it was released in June '98 just before they headlined Glasto again. Sylvia, with it's lighters-aloft quality would have been a better fit for open-air gigs - like when they played it at Finsbury Park the following month. I would have trimmed the final minute and a bit of instrumentation at the end of the song for the single edit.

And We Love Life - yep, Sunrise as an interim single was the thing to do. In fairness Pulp wanted it to happen after the reception it got at Leeds/Reading 2000. I know it's almost six minutes long but it would have been their first release in a couple of years. Released in the autumn of 2000, with the album still a fair bit away, all Pulp fans would have bought it (unlike the small number of diehards/mugs who got it two weeks before We Love Life came out despite it having fuck all b-sides) and the group would have been back in the public eye a bit.

Bad Cover Version and Birds In Your Garden are the only other two songs on the record that were likely to get them a hit I reckon. Bad Cover Version is the 2001 Christmas number one in a parallel universe. Had After You made the album that would possibly have fared quite well I think.

Sorry Ian, you did ask. ;)

-- Edited by Eamonn on Wednesday 13th of October 2010 02:22:33 AM

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Sturdy


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With you on most of that Eamonn. Also, maybe it would have helped if they'd not bothered with Master of the Universe, stuck Dogs Are Everywhere (as an already-released single) on the album instead, got it out a bit earlier, follwed it up with They Suffocate at Night, and moved on.

Then maybe we could have had a 1987/88 album with all those lost early Pulp 4 songs, with Death Comes to Town/Rattlesnake/Don't You Want Me Anymore as the singles before they did all the thumpy dance stuff for Separations.

Live On would have been a good bridging single between Countdown and O.U. The idea that they spent 2 years hanging onto that song, saving it "until we can record it properly and have a big hit" seems so laughable in hindsight. You just want to take them to one side and say "Seriously lads - in a year or two you'll have written Lipgloss, Do You Remember the First Time and Common People. You can afford to let go of Live On. Trust me on this one."

Not sure what I'd do about This Is Hardcore except maybe quitting all the farting about and just getting Help the Aged (or Cocaine Socialism) out a bit earlier. Perhaps not bother with A Little Soul and skip straight to Party Hard.

Sunrise as a single in its own right about a year earlier than it eventually came out, yes. For me, though, the obvious singles from WLL were Weeds and Minnie. In the case of the latter, I think being a single might have been the only thing that could have justified its place on the album really!

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Eamonn


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Had completely forgotten about Live On, it's one of my favourite Pulp songs. Yeah, that dreaded ''indie dance'' wave should have been rode. It makes you realise that so much unreleased stuff could have been singles let alone b-sides/album tracks.

Fast forwarding to the summer of 1997 you imagine having gone balls-out to professionally record It's A Dirty World that it would have been a candidate for comeback single rather than buried for the best part of a decade. Not sure how it would have fared but it would have been a serious sign of intent.

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James


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If it was up to you what Pulp released as singles, what would you change?
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Had the original(?) Pulp scored a record deal, both What Do You Say and Please Don't Worry could well have been minor successes.

My Lighthouse was a good choice, I wouldn't have bothered with Everybody's Problem (tho' the song would be salvageable given a more contempory arrangement - I smell a project...), instead Joking Aside would have been a good single.

Little Girl (With Blue Eyes) thru to My Legendary Girlfriend I can't argue with, surprisingly 'cos so much of the way Fire treated Pulp pi**es me off. However, getting into FON what-ifs is a completely different can of worms, let's not even go there right now.
The original Countdown instead of the single version. Jarvis' panicy Cureesque vocals on that version I think would have gone down well in that time.

This is probably where many of you are going to disagree with me. Live On, tho' an undeniable Pulp classic & a personal favourite, is too dark & intense. It's no more a single than some of you feel This Is Hardcore should have been. I have no arguements with the Gift era, except they really should have found the money for an OU video, & perhaps found a better title for the song.

Lipgloss & Do You Remember The First Time?, who can argue with that? However, previously to the Sisters EP, a third 'propper' single would have been good. Have You Seen Her Lately? would have been my choice, perhaps a double A side with She's A Lady. However, we can't disregard market saturation, for want of a better phrase, so I'm only 50/50 on that. Especially seeing as how the Sisters EP was so essential for catapulting Pulp into the public's conciousness.
Perhaps had Do You Remember The First Time? been the first, not second, single from His'N'Hers, Pulp might have been big enough to pull that off.

So on to the Different Class era. Common People, perfect. Now, although it would have gained considerably less radio play, Sorted For E's & Wizz may have fared better on it's own. The Sex Pistols' God Save The Queen was a(n alleged) no.1, after all.
Mis-Shapes I think damaged the everyman reputation attained by Common People, being an outcast's anthem. I remember reading in a computer mag (GamesMaster I think, but it might have been Sega Power) that Jarvis was on the list of the most important people in gaming because "As a famous 'geek', Jarvis' fate is also our own".
Disco 2000, fine. Then what I believe was a big mistake. Nothing wrong with Something Changed, but since Pulp had become so big, a fourth single as late as 1996 with only one new song should never have happened. It made them look a spent force, if anything actually causing the wane in public interest. Instead, they should have just gotten on with it & moved on.

Cocaine Socialism, tho' it would have dated quickly, would have been a great comeback single in 97, a time when someone really should have spoken out against the New Labour machine amoungst the ring-licking of Noel & Damon. Hell, it may have even been an edgy enough release to keep Russell interested.
But if they really couldn't bring themselves to do it/slip it passed the lable whatever, It's A Dirty World may have sufficed. With the title Nick(?) quoted, She Said She Was A Dancer tho', if I had my way.
By now, after their huge comeback hit & the success of Radiohead's OK Computer, Pulp would have been in the position to challenge their public with the seedy magnificence of This Is Hardcore. The only change I would make here would be to have the End Of The Line remix either become an extended version of the A side or to be left off completely. The first time I heard it, it was a real tease, just when I thought it was going to break into the drum intro nothing but fading out & ultimate dissapointment.
I guess then Help The Aged would be the obvious third & final single, if only for the superb video premise. A fourth single would have been (& was) pushing it for much the same reasons as I outlined in the Different Class section.

Here I would insert a late 1999 EP, led by a version of Birds In Your Garden which doesn't take any time to reach the opening riff, moving into The Quiet Revolution, Cuckoo & culminating in a rousing After You. Birds In Your Garden could have been a Christmas no.1 for sure.

Now for We Love Life itself. Quite simple really, The Night Minnie Timperley Died is the comeback single, followed by Sunrise, without The Trees. A fine song, but not a single & certainly not a comeback single, Island.
& finally, Bad Cover Version. Having maintained their popularity, Pulp's second Christmas no.1 in three years? Hmmm.





-- Edited by James on Friday 15th of October 2010 11:37:27 PM

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Sturdy


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James wrote:
Cocaine Socialism, tho' it would have dated quickly, would have been a great comeback single in 97, a time when someone really should have spoken out against the New Labour machine amoungst the ring-licking of Noel & Damon. Hell, it may have even been an edgy enough release to keep Russell interested.
You'd think so, but apparently they disagreed on that point - Russell once mentioned something about having an argument with Jarvis about the song because he felt, having waited for a Labour government for 18 years, that it was shooting New Labour down before giving them a chance.

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Eamonn


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James, I disagree with your stance on the fourth single from DC making the band look a spent force - any act which has three top ten singles from an album will always release a fourth one, it's too logical commercially. And Something Changed came out barely a month after ''Jacko v Jarvo'' so even moreso. It was a fine full-stop on the Different Class singles and showed they could pull off a great heartfelt ballad and weren't just a smart-arse glam-rock band.

The same b-sides being spread over 2CDs was a bit of a cop-out granted. Presumably this was done because there was nothing leftover from the DC sessions. Don't Lose It, Catcliffe Shakedown, Paula and We Can Dance Again were all left at demo-status, obviously Pulp fans would rather hear that than remixes/live versions of hitherto released songs but a big label as Island would probably have shot it down for them not being to a high enough recorded standard.

A fourth single from TIH was probably a bit pointless given the album had run out of steam and the third single had stalled at number 23 but Pulp were one of the biggest acts on Island's roster, they had plenty more b-sides to entice fans with and probably had an eye on drumming up more interest in the arena tour in late-'98.

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I thought TIH was a brilliant choice of single. As good as HnH and DC were, Pulp had developed (and somewhat cultivated) a reputation as a rather light-weight pop group, and TIH reestablished their freak credentials. And all was right in the world.

The hardcore album didn't have any proper singles, but I'd have chosen The Fear and I'm a Man over Party Hard and Help the Aged. I thought A Little Soul was a fine single. The TIH singles deserved better b-sides.

WLL should have been dust-binned altogether.


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weed


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Just wanted to poke my ore in here -

WWL - Weeds, Minnie, Birds In Your Garden, Sunrise

TIH - Help The Aged, This Is Hardcore, A Little Soul, The Fear/Party Hard

DC - No change

H'n'H - No change (Pink Glove could have been a possible 4th Single but I wouldn't have bothered either!)

Gift Singles - No Change

Sep... - Countdown, My Legendary G, Death Comes To Town

Little Girl, Dogs, They Suffocate.., Master - No Change

Freaks - Dunno really but 'I Want You' and 'Don't You Know' are probably the most listener friendly

IT - My Lighthouse, Blue Girls



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Ian


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If it was up to you what Pulp released as singles, what would you change?
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These replies have definitely been an interesting read.

I hadn't considered releasing only three singles off "This is Hardcore". I'd have gone for "Cocaine Socialism", "This is Hardcore" and "Party Hard" as a double a-side then "Help The Aged". As for releasing "The Fear" as a single - never in a million years. I might be alone here but I think it would have bombed.

"After You" would have been a good single but I don't know if it would have fit in well on the album. However, the fact that "Sunrise" didn't get much radio play and "The Trees" and "Bad Cover Version" got hardly any, I don't know how well it would have done.

As for "Something Changed", I think that they could have released anything off "Different Class" and it would have made the top 20 at least backs up the fact that a fourth single off "Different Class" was appropriate. I don't know what else would have been any better as a single... "Monday Morning" gets a bit loud towards the end, "Bar Italia" is too slow and "FEELINGCALLEDLOVE" takes too long to get going for radio play. Therefore, I think "Something Changed" was a good choice for a single.

-- Edited by Ian on Monday 18th of October 2010 06:13:15 PM

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weed


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They could have done a radio edit of FEELINGCALLEDLOVE but it might have lost something in the process. Maybe actually doubled up Something Changed and Mile End and gave us some proper B-sides over a 2 CD set. I think they nailed it anyway with the singles from DC - but why the shite B-sides when they had songs like We Can Dance Again, Don't Lose It and Catcliffe Shakedown lying around - which would have made fine B-sides

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Ian


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weed wrote:

They could have done a radio edit of FEELINGCALLEDLOVE but it might have lost something in the process. 



They could but I think that even if they shortened the intro, it still takes too long to get going for radio play. Also, the double-tracked vocals during the chorus make it sound less catchy than the live version. Definitely a brilliant album track in my opinion but not a single.

"Sylvia" - now that's something I've never considered as anything more than an album track. It certainly sounds better live than it does on the album and like Eamonn said, that song in the charts right before Glastonbury...yeah, maybe. It's definitely a lot stronger than "A Little Soul" anyway.

"Live On" would have been a good choice for a single at the time but didn't Jarvis decide to scrap it due to the personal nature of the lyrics? How true that is, I don't know because they played it live often enough and he could have always changed some of the lyrics when it got to the recording stage.

I think "Help The Aged" could have done better (maybe it would have reached the top 5 at least) if it was played and promoted more. If I remember rightly, Jarvis wanted to ease back into the limelight and just get a single out. With a bit of promotion behind it, a second CD and more airplay, who knows?

I agree with Weed that the "Different Class" b-sides could have been better. Does anyone know why they suddenly started backing their singles with unnecessary remixes, live versions and even went as far as releasing two CDs with the same tracklistings? Was it a case of wanting to sound more professional? (i.e. only wanting to release finished tracks, not demos?).



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Perfect


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Speaking of the DC remixes, a remastered version of the Disco 2000 7" mix on the deluxe edition would been a better choice then the nick cave's crappy mistake.

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Both of Nick Cave's versions are better than the original.

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scottfrazer


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What absolute bollocks !!! Disco 2000 - well the 7" version, was absolutely spot on - the album version is a little harder to listen to, I nearly always listen to the single over the album . Each to their own though so I respect that.




Regarding songs that should have been released as singles - id go as follows.


Pink Glove replacing Lipgloss - the reason I would choose this is that His n Hers was released in 1994 just as Pulp were "making it big". Lipgloss - ok yes it was catchy, but I always found it to be quite a cheesy song - and ok I suppose that you could call Pink Glove a little bit cheesy too, but it had a bit more of a darker eliment to it, and also an eliment of drama thrown into the fray too.

I Spy replacing Common People - haha im joking ! 

Sylvia replacing Party Hard - Personally I have never ever been a fan of Party Hard - I understand the reason for its release as it was an anthem of types, but Sylvia for me was the stand out song on the album which is in the bracket of "should have been released"

Birds In Your Garden replacing Trees - This was the ultimate and most apt Double A side that could have been released for me - a mellow heartwarming story told with a nice fade out that could easily have blended into the intro of Sunrise. Or is that me and my cooledit pissing around getting the better of me ? I dunno


Wickerman wrote:

Both of Nick Cave's versions are better than the original.



 



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Perfect


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scottfrazer wrote:

 

Disco 2000 - well the 7" version, was absolutely spot on - the album version is a little harder to listen to, I nearly always listen to the single over the album . Each to their own though so I respect that.


Well, i miss Jarvis little chat in the album version, eventhough i like the slightly more agressive tone




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Wickerman


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Is the 7'' version the same as used in the video?

As far as a reason for prefering Nick Cave's version, I like it better when it's not too much glamrock. There are actually two versions. A fast version, which actually sounds a bit like Pulp's version (availiable on DC deluxe) and a slower version, more ballad-ly from the Bad Cover Version single. I love the faster one, allthough the slower one fits Nick's voice better.



I would love to know who the personel is on these tracks. Just Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds (which ones?) or Nick and Pulp. Or session musicians.


-- Edited by Wickerman on Monday 25th of October 2010 11:45:47 AM

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Wickerman wrote:

Is the 7'' version the same as used in the video?


 Yes, it's the poppier version with the spoken-word bit in the middle.



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Perfect


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If it was up to you what Pulp released as singles, what would you change?
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Wickerman wrote:


I would love to know who the personel is on these tracks. Just Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds (which ones?) or Nick and Pulp. Or session musicians.


-- Edited by Wickerman on Monday 25th of October 2010 11:45:47 AM

 



There's something very Hawley-ish over the ballad version.



-- Edited by Perfect on Monday 25th of October 2010 12:40:57 PM

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James


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There's something very Hawley-ish over the ballad version.



-- Edited by Perfect on Monday 25th of October 2010 12:40:57 PM

 



Probably would have sounded better with Hawley singing too. I do like the ballad version tho'. The 'pub rock' version is the pits, in my opinion a bigger embarrasment in the Pulp cannon than Silence. I like both Pulp versions, I think if the missing lyrics were included on the rawer album version it would have been great - I much prefer the 'extra' lead guitar on the album versions chorus to the higher production values on the 7" mix. But without the complete lyric the album version falls down.



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scottfrazer


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I actually prefer the alternate album mix better (Alan Tarney) - added guitars and drums - made it sound a little nicer

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H&H no change

DC no change

TIH, in this order:

Cocaine socialism

I'm a man

This is Hardcore

Sylvia

Help the aged

WLL in this order:

Weeds

Birds in your garden

BCV, done properly, not sung by the BCVs (christmas no 1) ;)

Sunrise





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Perfect


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James wrote:

 



There's something very Hawley-ish over the ballad version.



-- Edited by Perfect on Monday 25th of October 2010 12:40:57 PM

 



Probably would have sounded better with Hawley singing too. I do like the ballad version tho'. The 'pub rock' version is the pits, in my opinion a bigger embarrasment in the Pulp cannon than Silence. I like both Pulp versions, I think if the missing lyrics were included on the rawer album version it would have been great - I much prefer the 'extra' lead guitar on the album versions chorus to the higher production values on the 7" mix. But without the complete lyric the album version falls down.

 



Yeah, why not? Despite from the sexier bits, the lyrics is a quite Hawley-ish.
The pub-rock version is not that different (musically) to the 7" mix witch just make the hole version a bit pointless. Yeah, the speaking part should have been there especially when the extra gitrarr makes the song more aggressive and bitter.

 



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Sturdy wrote:


Live On would have been a good bridging single between Countdown and O.U. The idea that they spent 2 years hanging onto that song, saving it "until we can record it properly and have a big hit" seems so laughable in hindsight. You just want to take them to one side and say "Seriously lads - in a year or two you'll have written Lipgloss, Do You Remember the First Time and Common People. You can afford to let go of Live On. Trust me on this one."


haha great point! makes you wonder what could have happened if they did just think 'sod it', record it and put it out as a single. if it became a hit, they could have had pressure on them to record more songs like it (not that they seem a pushover band of course biggrin ) and not ended up writing an album like His N Hers (and the equally great tracks on The Sisters EP) and everything that followed



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RE: If it was up to you what Pulp released as singstill les, what would you change?
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though i think pulp (and jarvis solo) have made some odd decisions in album-track-selection, i think they've been mainly spot-on with single selection--the exceptions being at the beginning and end of the bands career.

The changes I would make are:

- Everybody's Problem falls far short of even their contemporary material.  I would choose Blue Girls instead.

- Dogs are everywhere I would replace with Mark of the Devil, because it's catchier but still deep lyrically (like their 90s work I guess).

-  Masters of the Universe I like, but it seems a little awkward and unconfident.  I would replace with Don't You Know.

From then on I think they get it right for a while, though ideally they would have released Love is Blind and Death II as singles

- This is Hardcore I'm torn by. Somehow without the album around it, it sounds bloated and indulgent, and hearing it on the radio put me off  buying the album (the only pulp i had heard until then was the singles from 1994).  And while I like the idea of people hearing this side of Pulp, I think more people would have heard it if something more accessible had been the single.  I would chooseThe Fear, which is funny, dark and immediately moving.

- A little soul is likeable, but I can't imagine it working on the radio, perhaps because it wasn't played at all here in Australia.   In any case I don't think it's as likeable as The Dishes which I would choose instead.

- Party hard just sounds awkward, and also put me off buying the album. I would choose The Day After The Revolution, or a finished version of Cocaine Socialism (it seems to peter out lyrically after the first version).

- Sunrise I wouldn't have released a single (though it works well as an album closer).  Fortunately, radio here treated The Trees as the single.







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