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Post Info TOPIC: Dolores O'Riordan/Sinéad O'Connor/Shane MacGowan RIP


The Only Way is Down

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Such sad, unexpected news yesterday about Dolores O'Riordan passing away at such a young age.

And just a few months too, after another 90's pop-cultural Irish staple of British life, Sean Hughes also died before his time. Both played footnotes in Pulp's own story, the band miming in the background of the latter's TV show in 1993 and not too long before, both Pulp and The Cranberries signed to Island Records and Geoff Travis began managing each group. I was thinking of one of the best bits in Russell's book last night, when he describes the shenanigans he and Nick got up to with Dolores back in the day and I smiled when I saw that Nick had referred to it on Twitter today:

"Shocked to hear the death of #DoloresORiordan. #pulp shared a label n pr back in the day. Me n Russell enjoyed some top craic with Dolores"

For posterity, as it's in the book shelf opposite me, the excerpt from 'Freak Out The Squares':

 "Back in Engalnd, Nick Banks and I hung out with the Irish band The Cranberries when they were just bursting onto the scene and he was first in with the slightly dodgy Irish jokes. But their singer Dolores O'Riordan loved Irish jokes and we walked around London shouting " 'Tatoe!' and 'I'm just a simple girl from the bogs, might you know where I could get a tatoe, sir?' as if it was the funniest thing in the world, which it kind of was. At their hotel the porter made the rather insulting assumption that she was a prostitute, even though it was her staying there, not us. He kept finding excuses to burst in, hoping to have his suspicions proved correct. So we played along and put the suitcase stand on the bed, strapped a banana to it with a belt. Then we bounced up and down on the bed smoking cigars, moaning and going 'Yes, yes, tatoe, please, tatoe sir!' I'm not exactly sure which particular form of deviancy this might facilitate and how it might be enacted, but it confirmed the porter's suspicions and he threw us out, which we were very proud of. Look, I know this is nausatingly infantile, but it's what happened, don't shoot the messenger."



-- Edited by Eamonn on Thursday 30th of November 2023 01:23:18 PM

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The Only Way is Down

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I forgot this thread had never taken off!

But I think it's worth marking another of Ireland's feisty, flawed genius daughters Sinéad O'Connor who passed yesterday. She was indelibly part of the culture when I grew-up, the one cool/intelligent musician who used their platform to question the church, the patriarchy and authority. She fucked-up at times but she was more often bang on the money than not when she spoke-up.

Coming from an awfully confusing, abusive childhood to becoming one of the greatest singers and most passionate musicians going. I don't expect Jarvis to break into Nothing Compares To You at Hammersmith this weekend but I wouldn't be surprised if he raised a glass to her.


Morrissey has evoked the entirety of "Paint A Vulgar Picture" with his tribute and he's probably not totally wrong...


She had only so much "self" to give. She was dropped by her label after selling 7 million albums for them. She became crazed, yes, but uninteresting, never. She had done nothing wrong. She had proud vulnerability and there is a certain music industry hatred for singers who don't "fit in" (this I know only too well), and they are never praised until death - when, finally, they can't answer back. The cruel playpen of fame gushes with praise for Sinead today... with the usual moronic labels of "icon" and "legend". You praise her now ONLY because it is too late. You hadn't the guts to support her when she was alive and she was looking for you. The press will label artists as pests because of what they withhold... and they would call Sinead sad, fat, shocking, insane... oh but not today! Music CEOs who had put on their most charming smile as they refused her for their roster are queuing-up to call her a "feminist icon", and 15 minute celebrities and goblins from hell and record labels of artificially aroused diversity are squeezing onto Twitter to twitter their jibber-jabber...when it was YOU who talked Sinead into giving up...because she refused to be labelled, and she was degraded, as those few who move the world are always degraded. Why is ANYBODY surprised that Sinead O'Connor is dead? Who cared enough to save Judy Garland, Whitney Houston, Amy Winehouse, Marilyn Monroe, Billie Holiday? Where do you go when death can be the best outcome? Was this music madness worth Sinead's life? No, it wasn't. She was a challenge, and she couldn't be boxed-up, and she had the courage to speak when everyone else stayed safely silent. She was harassed simply for being herself. Her eyes finally closed in search of a soul she could call her own. As always, the lamestreamers miss the ringing point, and with locked jaws they return to the insultingly stupid "icon" and "legend" when last week, words far more cruel and dismissive would have done. Tomorrow the fawning fops flip back to their online shitposts and their cosy Cancer Culture and their moral superiority and their obituaries of parroted vomit all of which will catch you lying on days like today... when Sinead doesn't need your sterile slop.

MORRISSEY
26 July, 2023.



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Street Operator

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Morrissey has parroted a whole lot of overtly racist, ignorant, dismal and arrogant stuff down the years. But I have to give him credit for this. His tribute, though it veers into typical ahh-no-the-wokies bollocks, does get a lot right, there's some stuff there that's bang on the money. Some very poignant phrasing in there.

I never particularly listened to Sinéad O'Connor but I've seen her stunt on SNL (amazing first to sing a capella and then to pull that off), it instilled some admiration. She's evidently an extremely talented and passionate performer, and I've been youtubing clips. She's got remarkable stage presence and vocal chops. Rest in peace.

(That Russell story about Dolores O'Riordan is fantastic, by the way)



-- Edited by lipglossed on Thursday 27th of July 2023 03:30:37 PM

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Loss Adjuster

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Got to say, well said Mr. M. Hope a lot of people see that.

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"they are never praised until death - when, finally, they can't answer back"

This is so constant and demeaning. There's a horrific Guardian obit up which is basically a string of slights, saying Sinead / Shuhada' "lacked the determination" to be famous (she simply didn't want it, because fame is horrible as any fule kno) and implying that her career was derailed because "she was constitutionally unable to compromise her values", which is ironic (compromising your values is something the Grauniad would know an awful lot about).

I'd direct anyone looking at that publication towards Simon Hattenstone's write-up instead, which isn't perfect but is pretty elucidating and moving at times. It'd be disingenuous of me to say anything more about it because I'm playing catch-up when it comes to this amazing and intriguing artist.



-- Edited by lipglossed on Thursday 27th of July 2023 07:48:58 PM

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Master Of The Universe

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I was in Dublin at the weekend, everywhere was playing The Cranberries when Limerick won the All Ireland. My father in law was a close family friend. When Dolores passed away he was quite upset about it. Hearing the songs like Dreams and Zombie at the weekend was quite up lifting, though I will confess I was remembering Dolores with a tear in my eye.

I wouldnt say I was a big fan of Sineads music, but I did admire her gusto and many of the things she stood for. Her ripping up of the popes picture was straight from the Bob Geldof playbook (ripping up Travoltas picture on TOTP), though obviously upping the ante hundred fold. Nothing Compares To U was the result of her relationship with Fachtna Ó Ceallaigh (Boomtown Rats and U2 manager) and was absolutely hated by Prince! Her brother, Joseph, is someone I have a lot of time for. His Irish Male books are worth a read. I feel he is a kindred spirit, though I have never met him.

Two of the greatest Irish women rock stars have gone too soon. Stars that shone so brightly.

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Master Of The Universe

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Eamonn wrote:

I forgot this thread had never taken off!


Not sure why. I must have missed it at the time as I would have responded. And like you, I had thought of both Dolores and Sinead a little earlier today

https://boomtownrats.activeboard.com/t64981632/death-notices/



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The Only Way is Down

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The Rats have a similar forum?! I saw them in Southampton a few weeks ago at an 80s Fest thing. Couldn't believe how good they were. Bob still has it. Somehow didn't look ridiculous in drainpipe jeans with shiny buttons running down the sides.

Were you shouting for Limerick? I'm a Cat but we certainly licked our wounds in the second half....anyway, see ya at Hammersmith tomorrow maybe...stay away from the Russians this time !

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Master Of The Universe

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Eamonn wrote:

The Rats have a similar forum?! I saw them in Southampton a few weeks ago at an 80s Fest thing. Couldn't believe how good they were. Bob still has it. Somehow didn't look ridiculous in drainpipe jeans with shiny buttons running down the sides.

Were you shouting for Limerick? I'm a Cat but we certainly licked our wounds in the second half....anyway, see ya at Hammersmith tomorrow maybe...stay away from the Russians this time !


The similarities between the forums is not a coincidence. When the last forum went kaput, I suggested Steve used Activeboard.  And he agreed.

The Rats are pretty awesome live.  A few friends have seen them on the Let's Rock circuit this summer and have contacted me about it.   I last saw them at Butlins in October last year in the final British Alternative Festival.  I don't bother with the Let's Rock stuff.  Was planning to see them in Cavan this weekend, but then I got a ticket for Pulp.

My father was born in Limerick and father in law comes from Limerick.  And given the injustice of my beloved Clare losing to the Cats in the semi (I was in Dublin for that as well), I was delighted to see our good neighbours win the Liam McCarthy again . Really enjoyed watching the game from Nally Terrace.  30 years since I was last at an All Ireland final on Hill 16 when we did support the Cats against Galway.  

As for tomorrow, it would be good to meet.  Is there a plan?  I have to take my father to the hospital tomorrow morning, but should be free early-ish. There is a nice Fullers pub by the river, The Blue Boat that I am going to arrange to meet a friend at.  Just look for an auld white haired fella with a Pulp TCT T Shirt

 



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I'll be on my way to Hammersmith tomorrow, so I might pop by and say hi. There is also some Twitter young'uns that I want to have a look for.

Shame it's not an M&B pub because I get a discount.

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The Only Way is Down

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ArrGee, I'm seeing Dexys do a little gig at 6pm so will be rushing to Hammersmith, probably miss the support so won't get a chance for a pre-match pint. If I think I spot you, I'll build courage up to approach.

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Master Of The Universe

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Eamonn wrote:

ArrGee, I'm seeing Dexys do a little gig at 6pm so will be rushing to Hammersmith, probably miss the support so won't get a chance for a pre-match pint. If I think I spot you, I'll build courage up to approach.


 Don't worry, I don't bite smile   Of course, it may not be me again biggrin



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Nothing Compares on Sky Documentaries and on Skys on-demand service and NOW.

www.nowtv.com/gb/watch/home/asset/nothing-compares-trailer/ba6392a8-8928-43c0-962a-6a01604db22e

https://www.nowtv.com/gb/watch/entertainment/highlights/asset/nothing-compares-2022/A5EK3JXxfMHsMoiq7RC8j



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The Only Way is Down

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And now Shane gone too...fuck, I thought he was indestructible. I'm not a fervent Irish republican by any means, and Shane's own heritage was mixed but his identity as an outsider in London, missing Ireland and how he made that into art which was rarely clichéd or mawkish, often ferocious and beautiful; will remain unsurpassable.

His and Sinéad's duet of Haunted is an early memory when pop-music took root in my heart - this rough around the edges performance from spring'95, when the record that changed my life, Different Class, was being dreamt-up at the "Catcliffe Hit Factory" (© Sturdy).



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Street Operator

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Thanks for this, Eamonn. Terrible news about Shane MacGowan, he really had it all. I saw footage floating around of guests waltzing in the aisle to 'Fairytale of New York' at his funeral. Very moving indeed.

I hope his legacy is remembered in a balanced way - not just that song. The Pogues were a brilliant band.



-- Edited by lipglossed on Sunday 10th of December 2023 01:37:51 AM

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